Disagreement and Persuasion with Jessica Tarlov
Timothy Snyder
72,690 views
Tim recently sat down with Fox News commentator and pollster Jessica Tarlov for a nearly hour-long conversation, split between the state of the midterms and Jessica’s new book, I Disagree: Winning Arguments Without Losing Friends. Below are just some of the topics they touched on:
Are we headed for free and fair elections? Jessica opened by naming her worry directly: after Trump aired a taxpayer-funded campaign ad during college football and NFL broadcasts, talk of seizing voting machines, and open interest in a third term, how confident can we be in 2026 and 2028? Tim stressed that unfair elections don’t mean giving up; they mean fighting harder, as Hungary’s opposition did against Orbán even under worse conditions. He argued that real resistance requires a broad coalition, not just one party, and that Trump’s aggressiveness reflects weakness (terrible poll numbers, no real public support) rather than strength.
Corruption vs. affordability. Jessica raised a tension inside the opposition: should Democrats lead with investigations, or with kitchen-table issues like gas prices and healthcare? Tim argued this is a false choice. Hungary’s opposition won by fusing the two, showing voters that their daily struggles and systemic corruption were the same story. Jessica pointed to John Ossoff as a model for blending both. Tim added that democracy can’t be sold as a return to the status quo, since most people didn’t like the status quo either; it has to be framed as something new and forward-looking.
A world moving on without the U.S. Jessica raised Canada as an example of allies adapting without expecting normalcy to return. Tim reframed the picture: it’s not that Canada is moving on without the U.S., it’s that the “U.S.” as a government with a coherent national interest doesn’t currently exist in the way it once did. His hope is that if allies like Canada, the UK, the EU, and Ukraine hold their democracies together while the U.S. goes through this period, there will be working models to learn from later.
From politics to Jessica’s new book. The conversation turned to I Disagree, which Jessica described as a practical guide to arguing with people you disagree with without writing them off. She argued that the American left has often ceded hard conversations across ideological lines, and that reaching people means finding shared values first rather than leading with disagreement. Tim connected this to the corrosive effect of algorithmic media, noting that U.S. social media and AI are less regulated, and more damaging, than in most other countries, and that getting people back into human contact and real-world institutions (schools, hospitals, civic life) is itself a democratic act.
They closed by agreeing that dialogue alone won’t change the underlying conditions. Real change requires decisive electoral outcomes. Tim noted that with the wealth and technology available, a much better country is possible, and that the current mood of universal pessimism is itself a tactic borrowed from Putin’s playbook: convince people nothing works anywhere, so nothing seems worth fighting for.
I hope you’ll watch, enjoy the conversation, and share it with anyone who might be interested. There is a lot to think about here, and I think you’ll learn a great deal from Jessica and Tim’s exchange.
FYI: we’ve got a few more Substack conversations this week, including an exciting conversation with Min Jin Lee tomorrow about her new novel American Hagwon (12pm ET); Talking Feds with Harry Litman (11am ET on Friday) Rep. Jake Auchincloss (2:15pm ET on Friday).
See you all soon,
Victor
20 Comments
Corruption is a main component of why we can't afford gas, groceries & healthcare.
Disagreement and Persuasion with Jessica Tarlov
Timothy Snyder
72,690 views
Tim recently sat down with Fox News commentator and pollster Jessica Tarlov for a nearly hour-long conversation, split between the state of the midterms and Jessica’s new book, I Disagree: Winning Arguments Without Losing Friends. Below are just some of the topics they touched on:
Are we headed for free and fair elections? Jessica opened by naming her worry directly: after Trump aired a taxpayer-funded campaign ad during college football and NFL broadcasts, talk of seizing voting machines, and open interest in a third term, how confident can we be in 2026 and 2028? Tim stressed that unfair elections don’t mean giving up; they mean fighting harder, as Hungary’s opposition did against Orbán even under worse conditions. He argued that real resistance requires a broad coalition, not just one party, and that Trump’s aggressiveness reflects weakness (terrible poll numbers, no real public support) rather than strength.
Corruption vs. affordability. Jessica raised a tension inside the opposition: should Democrats lead with investigations, or with kitchen-table issues like gas prices and healthcare? Tim argued this is a false choice. Hungary’s opposition won by fusing the two, showing voters that their daily struggles and systemic corruption were the same story. Jessica pointed to John Ossoff as a model for blending both. Tim added that democracy can’t be sold as a return to the status quo, since most people didn’t like the status quo either; it has to be framed as something new and forward-looking.
A world moving on without the U.S. Jessica raised Canada as an example of allies adapting without expecting normalcy to return. Tim reframed the picture: it’s not that Canada is moving on without the U.S., it’s that the “U.S.” as a government with a coherent national interest doesn’t currently exist in the way it once did. His hope is that if allies like Canada, the UK, the EU, and Ukraine hold their democracies together while the U.S. goes through this period, there will be working models to learn from later.
From politics to Jessica’s new book. The conversation turned to I Disagree, which Jessica described as a practical guide to arguing with people you disagree with without writing them off. She argued that the American left has often ceded hard conversations across ideological lines, and that reaching people means finding shared values first rather than leading with disagreement. Tim connected this to the corrosive effect of algorithmic media, noting that U.S. social media and AI are less regulated, and more damaging, than in most other countries, and that getting people back into human contact and real-world institutions (schools, hospitals, civic life) is itself a democratic act.
They closed by agreeing that dialogue alone won’t change the underlying conditions. Real change requires decisive electoral outcomes. Tim noted that with the wealth and technology available, a much better country is possible, and that the current mood of universal pessimism is itself a tactic borrowed from Putin’s playbook: convince people nothing works anywhere, so nothing seems worth fighting for.
I hope you’ll watch, enjoy the conversation, and share it with anyone who might be interested. There is a lot to think about here, and I think you’ll learn a great deal from Jessica and Tim’s exchange.
FYI: we’ve got a few more Substack conversations this week, including an exciting conversation with Min Jin Lee tomorrow about her new novel American Hagwon (12pm ET); Talking Feds with Harry Litman (11am ET on Friday) Rep. Jake Auchincloss (2:15pm ET on Friday).
See you all soon,
Victor