Kevin McKee discusses narcissistic abuse in religious settings and offers deep insights into toxic relationships. Time stamps below.
00:00 Narcissism in Religious Organizations
05:43 The Church's Role in Toxic Relationships
11:01 When to "Bear Your Cross"
18:33 Manipulating Religious Doctrine
25:40 Discipline and Recovery from Abuse
33:42 How Narcissists Become Church Leaders
38:12 Identifying Toxic Religious Groups
44:07 Overcoming Sensitivity to Narcissists
50:16 Resilience and Confidence
52:49 Self-Awareness and Confidence
56:48 Relationship History Issues
59:30 The Impact of Family Dynamics on Relationships
01:02:12 find Kevin McKee online
01:04:00 Future Projects

There is such a hierarchy in the church. "I'm more spiritual than you". And then there is the celebrity status of being on stage, of being on the staff, of performing on the "worship" concert. Of controlling the money. Of wearing beautiful clothes. Of having all the answers and telling people what to do. Of controlling hundreds of people instead of just the poor victims at your house. Narcissist LOVE soaking all of this up. Some people go to church looking for God, and some people go to church so they can BE God.

I married into a "church family", biggest bunch of narcissists I've ever come across.

“Keep them well enough to function, but sick enough to come back.”
Bro.
Nailed it!!

Essentially, the Church teaching is that to truly love a person, one must desire their freedom from the bondage of sin, not celebrate nor ignore the sin itself. We must abhor sin. We do not have to reconcile with psychopaths and malignant narcissists. We can love them from a safe distance.

The day I discovered narcissism in the church from entering the “inner circle” as worship team leader I got sick to my stomach. Then I got angry and left because I couldn’t watch this two faced pastor cry at the pulpit twisting the word of God for profit. I was expected to fill seats with my voice and that was my value.

I have been attacked by these occults and they get away with criminal activity and need to be stopped

Wow. This is the story of SO many unsuspecting people in the church.

That happened to me. I was convinced for a long time to stay and forgive and love my family unconditionally. To be a good example all along while I was lied on and abused by family my Son mostly. He also convinced my sister to believe in him. That was the flying monkey. I cut them all off. Thank you Kevin!!

Kevin spoke about narcissistic individuals joining churches in order to manipulate their loved ones (through messages of forgiveness/turning the other cheek, etc)  into sticking with them. That is precisely what happened to me, and I remained stuck for over 20 years.  Over the course of that time I turned to the church leaders for help numerous times, and no one ever said....'you need to get out' until 2018.  That person urged a separation and it was during the time of separation I truly saw the narcissist for the predator they  are. I thank God for that person's clarity and courage to encourage me to do something considered taboo within that church's leadership.  Kevin's assertion of discipline in our healing is absolutely on point.  I believe healing is substantial through immersing in various disciplines, including counseling but also physical disciplines so that one does not become stuck brooding on the past. Thank you Brad and Kevin for the great interview!

Such an important conversation!!!!

"...the benefits of staying disciplined in life...will always get the results that I want...so that's a benefit.  But the other benefit is that it leaves no time to engage with toxic people.  Your discipline will override engaging with toxic people because you're not going to have time for them..."  SOLD!  Finally, a big enough 'WHY' for me...

My Priest knows a lot about psychology. When I told him about my narcissist mother, he talked about the possibility to go no contact for a while.
She wanted me to give her money on a monthly basis to support her but I didn’t feel good about that, given that I have never received money from her. I paid my studies myself and she never supported me even when I had problems. I had to cope and figure out things by myself. I kind of learned life by myself.
But I was troubled because refusing to give her money meant disrespecting God’s command "honor your parents". So I went to my priest. He told me I owed my parents nothing. I have nothing to give back. If I want to give, I have to do it willingly not because I am forced to do so.
He said Parents raise their children because they love them not to receive something back.
It was such a relief

My congregation (41:30) is one that encourages thinking deeper on Scripture. It's not enough to just read and move on. We are told to investigate the world in which the words were written, motivations, and practical application for each person individually.

In churches also you can't express a grievance against a narcissist because the response will be "oh, forgive, forgive". The aggrieved person will be silenced.

My abusive ex is currently hiding in a church manipulating vulnerable people.

Thanks Brad , once again finding the right guest at the right time and hitting all of us with the truth barrels right in the gut with real honesty !

When you really get narcissistic supply it’s clear that there could never be a greater high than spiritual authority

Brad, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your podcasts.  Whilst my whole being literally aches from the exhaustion and loneliness of being in relationship with one of these creatures for 16 years (married for 6), I find your insightful interviews like healing waters for my soul.  I don't crave another friend to hang out with, I crave and grieve the life/fruitfulness/companionship that marriage is meant to provide.  Now I can relate to the phrase "ghost in a shell"... I recognise nothing of myself anymore.  This is what they do to you.  The damage they cause is profound.  Mine was a worship leader in church and the most seemingly humble, gentle, spiritually deep human being I could ever meet.  I thought we would tour the world with our music, but I lost my joy of singing shortly after meeting him.  Simply breathing normally became a struggle.  People in the church knew but continued to worship him and tell me I wasn't praying enough.  Needless to say, I don't attend any institutionalised 'church' anymore...

Absolutely LOVE this.