You really brought forward the complexities of her life and of her personality. She’s usually painted black (great job of that by Jessica Raines in Wolf Hall by the way) so it’s great to explore all that gray area.

Charles Bramdon, Henry's frat brother, was the ultimate survivor.

Just love your channel, thank you!

Great discussion about the notion of loyalty and human complexity. Jane's life certainly provides a good example. Thank you for one more fascinating episode 😊

Another riveting episode! Thank you both.

The musical interludes make me bow to my cat. Nobody else here for my tapping toes. I do enjoy those a lot. ❤ from 🇺🇸.  I want to go home😊.

Outstanding Discussion, Thank You!✨

Jane Boleyn is so intriguing… I will have to check out the new book.

I loved your book on Jane.

Spectacular discussion...i feel that Lady Rochford is by far the most intriguing life of all the Tudors. I could go back in time and be a fly on the wall...I would never leave her side.

Not sure why he said Henry didn't like Jane. How could Jane have remained at court if he didn't like her? Regarding her being 'responsible' for Anne and George's downfall...that responsibility lies with Henry and Cromwell. I think Jane must have been an interesting and somewhat entertaining companion because Anne seems to have gotten along with her and I believe Anne was used to the company of bright women.  Jane seemed to have been a lively companion to Catherine Howard. I just have to wonder at what kind of life she may have had if it weren't for her I sister-n-law!

I'm interested if James has any theories on WHY Jane was (in his opinion, and probably mine, also) involved in Anne and George's downfall. Does he feel she was coerced and threatened by Cromwell? Does he think she willingly gave testimony? Was her support of Anne in trying to get Henry's attention away from a mistress who was hostile just her doing her duty, or was there a friendship there at least for some of the time she served Anne? Was that incident the thing that ruined their relationship? Why did she try to see George, do you think, if she was fine with seeing him arrested? Was that putting on a show of loyalty to hide her betrayal? Did she have a motive for trying to see him... maybe trying to get him to confess something or to try to figure out how she could keep his fortune after he was dead? It's a strange situation, and hard to understand her motive. As for her involvement with Kathryn's 'affair' with Culpepper, I agree it's pretty clear she was involved. Absolutely painfully stupid, but maybe she thought Kathryn needed to get pregnant in order to be safe. But trying to pass of an illegitimate child as an heir to the throne is bonkers, also.

Ive always thought Jane Boleyn is one of those random characters From history That would just randomly make the greatest high budget historical drama series... i mean You could very easily average 2 seasons for every queen she served... or a historical fiction book series

True enough, as I think this discussion very Wonderfully highlights, You would really Have to fill her personality in yourself..

But there's clearly enough general history from that Era That I feel one could efficiently Construct A character, a fictional plot & dialog that would fit very naturally in with real history...

So, what did we learn about Jane? Anything,

I don't believe she testified against  George willingly but was pressed and tricked into implicating him. His fall, ( and Anne's), was her fall. What she was thinking many years later helping Catherine with illicit meetings with Culpepper is confounding. Of all people she knew how dangerous such meetings were. An interesting personality.

Thank you both, she was certainly an interesting woman.  I never really believed that she was leaking things to Henry.  Thought it was a bit of a nice, made up story for books etc.  the thing to me though , is why?   Had Anne done something to offend her.  Had her husband .  ( Believe me, I’ve read some really good ‘theories’ about why. ).  I did read somewhere that she wore black for the rest of her life.  Do you think that would have been true or would she have been ‘sent packing’  from the court?  And if she did so, why?  Genuine mourning for her husband or a guilty conscience.   What a shame we couldn’t be a fly on the wall sometimes.   A very safe fly though 🙏🙏🙏👵🇦🇺

History shows that Jane was pragmatic. My guess with regard to her "damming" testimony against George and Anne is as follows: Firstly there isn't any record of her testimony by name, its all inferred, mainly by George's quote referring to the testimony of "that lady" or "the testimony of one lady". It was, and has been assumed he was referring to his wife, but no direct evidence. I believe Cromwell sat her down and said, "We have enough evidence, ( against George and Anne), they're going down". ( he didn't as they were innocent, but that was irrelevant. They, (Henry and Cromwell ) had already decided to execute them)   "We can do this the easy way or the hard way. You can come out of this with a position and a stipend or you're out of court and the king's favor". Knowing she was certain to loose her husband, the queen and sister in law, she chose to secure her future, through testimony favorable to the case against them, while not lying or stretching the truth. Again, pragmatic. I say this because there's evidence she petitioned Cromwell later for money. "Remember our agreement"? The only logic I can come up with for the behavior of Jane, ( and Catherine and Culpepper), regarding (the most likely non-consumated), emotional affair and meetings which Jane facilitated, is they all believed Henry was "at deaths door", and they were establishing their post Henry positions. Jane, again, pragmatic, but Henry didn't die, Catherine's past was discovered and ultimately her affair with Culpepper. They all gambled and lost. Jane's pragmatism and her luck finally ran out.

She hated Henry. She’d been forced to give evidence against her husband even if she was angry with him. Afterward, she was impoverished for a time. Henry was in ill health. Perhaps she imagined if Katherine got pregnant by Culpepper she’d have more power .  In addition, if Henry died and Katherine married Culpepper, she’d have much more power. She loved court life and the luxury that went with it. She was also living through Katherine, I agree. But she thought she was smarter than she turned out to be.

James Taffe, PhD is better and less pretentious than ‘Dr’.