OpenTube

Writing Advice Every Writer Should Hear (Anne Lamott Interview)

David Perell

712,759 views

Buy Anne’s latest book, Good Writing, below:
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...

Anne Lamott is famous for writing "Bird by Bird", one of the best books ever written about the craft of writing. In it, she states that "perfectionism is the voice of the oppressor, the enemy of the people." Sentences like that have made her a muse for countless writers over the years.

Beyond "Bird by Bird", she has written more than 20 books, including novels and memoirs. She recently published a book with her husband, featuring 36 rules for writing. In this interview, we discussed the types of people creatives should surround themselves with, why writer's block is a misnomer, and what she considers the very best writing prompt.

00:00:00 Introduction
00:00:39 What it means to go bird by bird
00:02:17 Why writer's block isn't real
00:03:36 Don't write harder
00:09:06 The 3 drafts of every book
00:14:24 Observing people around you
00:15:58 How to face your inner critic
00:27:59 How wow restores awe
00:31:16 The "first 3 pages" test
00:35:51 Why revenge is fuel
00:38:26 The best writing prompt ever
00:43:02 Two hacks to get started
00:48:53 A fun way to find writing ideas
00:52:45 Squint to form an idea
00:54:57 What movies inspire Anne
01:02:08 The ABDCE storytelling formula
01:05:37 What makes a good ending
01:10:57 How to deal with criticism
01:16:28 Be willing to be fully alive

About the host
Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible.

Follow me
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
YouTube: @davidperellchannel
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSbo...
X: https://x.com/david_perell

20 Comments

@DavidPerellChannel Creator 5 months ago Pinned

Some highlights from the interview:

1) "The point is not to try harder; it's to resist life less."

2) "Reverence is about constantly asking yourself: how alive am I willing to be? It hurts to be fully alive. It means taking off some of your armor."

3) From her husband, Neil: "Everything true and beautiful can be discovered on any ten-minute walk."

4) What Anne says to her inner critic: "Thank you for keeping me alive as a child, but I won't be needing you right now. I'm in the middle of something."

5) Two rules for writing: Remove the boring stuff. Then, write the hard stuff.

6) If it sounds literary, remove it. The goal isn't to sound literary. The goal is to sound human.

7) The ABDCE formula for storytelling: Action, Background, Development, Climax, Ending.

8) "If you've survived your childhood, you have enough to write about for the rest of your life." — Flannery O'Connor

9) "Worship good editors. They save you from yourself, from your blind spots, and from your weird little habits that you think are charming but actually are not."

10) The first thing she says at all her writing workshops: "You've got to stop not writing."

11) Writing is like getting into very cold water. Once you're in, you might as well paddle around for a minute.

12) Laughter is carbonated holiness.

@BellaRocs 5 months ago

“The key is not to try harder, but to resist less.” Profound when it hits.

@TimothyCornette 4 months ago

David Perell, dude, you are a skilled interviewer. You squeeze so much out of these amazing writers, and you do so with a natural finesse without being annoying. You never miss the mark. So grateful for your channel.

@EleanorWilliams-l1d 3 months ago

I’m am writing my first novel at 64 years and am totally captivated by the process. This interview has touched my soul and that of my inner writer. Anne’s humility, graciousness, generosity makes this an absolute must listen to for any writer.

@iangatere6459 4 months ago

72? She looks fantastic: body, mind & soul.

@reneeconstance22 5 months ago

“If you don’t have anything wrong with you, I’m not interested in sitting at the table with you”
and that is how I also choose my friends, they have best stories.

@drleminhkhoi 5 months ago

I love the moment "-I forgot the question. - So did I!". So cool. You both were in Flow.

@GoodxBean 5 months ago

I am six minutes in and am absolutely certain this interview was meant for only me

@AbdallahHassaan-e7x 4 months ago

"I don't know" is the portal to freedom.

@TysonVaughan 5 months ago

I met Annie once, right after Bird by Bird came out. She contributed a regular column called Word by Word at the magazine where I worked. She’s an absolute delight. Compassionate, funny, wise.

@craigcinca 4 months ago

Brother, not only is this one of the best interviews you've done, it's one of the best interviews I've watched in my 56 years on this ball of dirt. Well done.

@billyalarie929 5 months ago

The husband being locked out of the house is AN AMAZING reframing of writer’s block

@Travis-y5f 5 months ago

I had the worst writers block this morning and this episode dropped with divine timing 🙏

@SleepParty30 5 months ago

I think a huge supressor of creative writing is the publishing industry. Many writers focus too much on following "the rules" like word count and chapter length, etc., and that strict writing style doesn't allow a natural, creative flow. Don't worry about how big your chapter is, or if your book is 200k words longer than the norm. Just make sure your voice is intact, your grammar is spot on, and you aren't leaping from different tenses or povs. A good story doesn't need to be exactly 70k words in length or include the latest trending genre. If a story is good, it will SEEK to come out of your soul onto those empty pages.

@JDHorn 5 months ago

Back in the 90s, when I was working on my first (mercifully unpublished) novel, my friend mentioned me to her, and I came home to a lovely, encouraging message from Anne Lamott on my answering machine. She’s a kind, generous human being.

@weekendresearcher 5 months ago (edited)

Elements of Style, On Writing Well, and Bird by Bird - I bought them 3 years ago and return to them almost every week when I am stuck...only the author of bird by Bird is alive and you invited her...thank you so much for this seminal archive you just created as a podcast 🎉❤

@nshirayamoah5956 3 months ago

I find it beautiful how she mentioned that childhood (whether good or bad) really can be material for writing.
It reminded me of how Rainer Maria Rilke says similarly in Letters to a Young Poet, "And even if you were in a prison, whose walls prevented all the bustle of the world from reaching your senses, even then would you not still have your childhood, that precious, kingly wealth, that treasure-house of memories? Turn your attention towards it." Wow

@perogieluver 5 months ago

The key is not to try harder, but to resist less. Thank you.

@ChrisB-l2h1y 5 months ago

Omg. There was a tree! That is an incredible prompt. It is where I have started so much of my writing. At age three I moved into a house in a brand new housing development to live with my father and new stepmother. The land that was now covered with houses had been a large walnut orchard, and the developer had made a point of saving one walnut tree on each property. All I have to do is think of that walnut tree in the center of our yard, with its rope swing and wooden seat, and the confusion and sadness I felt at that time is instantly retrievable. The tree became my refuge, and still to this day, seventy years later, I get emotional over walnut trees.
That prompt could feed my writing for months.