Wolves vs West Brom: Who Really Owns the Black Country?
This Is Molineux
1,208 views
The Black Country Derby is back — but what does it actually mean to “own” the Black Country?
In this Old Gold Standard episode, I look beyond the usual match preview and explore the rivalry between Wolves and West Brom through its history, identity and changing meaning across generations.
From both clubs being founding members of the Football League, to the 1953/54 season when Wolves finished champions and Albion runners-up, the head-to-head record, trophies, changing Black Country boundaries, famous derby memories and the players who crossed the divide — including Steve Bull — this rivalry has constantly evolved.
And with the derby returning again this weekend, there’s one final question: does anyone really own the Black Country permanently, or do you simply earn the right to claim it until the next meeting?
Topics include: Wolves vs West Brom history, the 1950s golden era, all-time records, Black Country identity, Steve Bull and the players who crossed the divide, and what this derby means today.
🐺 Come on you Wolves.
#Wolves #WWFC #WestBrom #WBA #BlackCountryDerby #ThisIsMolineux #Championship
5 Comments
@ThisIsMolineux Creator 2 weeks ago Pinned
Who owns the Black Country? More importantly - why do you claim that?
@maioadriano 2 weeks ago
Albion fan here - really nice video. It's obviously all subjective, but that's what adds to the fun. I think that the remarkable think with this rivalry is that for all the ebbs, flows and contrasting fortunes over the years, the fact that these are two of the most historic clubs in the country, in such close proximity, and that for over a 100 years we've often been in and around the same level challenging each other makes it one of the greatest derbies in the country. It's been an anomaly that in recent history the two clubs have had extended periods in the top flight that have tended to coincide with the other being down - as much as each side likes to talk about wishing relegation on the other etc, bragging rights at work/school/at the pub never feel so good as when you've just beaten your rival, so like you say hopefully this one ends up being back in the top flight before too long and we'll see who's smiling come Sunday afternoon!
@macjam9090 2 weeks ago
'The Black Country has no single set of defined boundaries. Some traditionalists define it as "the area where the coal seam comes to the surface – so West Bromwich, Coseley, Oldbury, Blackheath, Cradley Heath, Old Hill, Bilston, Dudley, Tipton, Wednesbury, and parts of Halesowen, Walsall and Smethwick or what used to be known as Warley." There are records from the 18th century of shallow coal mines in Wolverhampton, however. Others have included areas slightly outside the coal field which were associated with heavy industry.
Walsall and Wolverhampton’s Black Country status was secure throughout the 19th century and the first half of the 20th, with Arthur Mee positing that Wolverhampton was the “capital of The Black Country” in The King's England: Staffordshire (1937). Both boroughs were expanded to include increasingly suburban outskirts, which may have influenced the Dudley-centric publication The BlackCountryMan (and later, the Black Country Bugle) to perpetuate the idea that neither borough was part of the region (although the Bugle now includes content on all four boroughs). The towns of Dudley and Tipton are today generally considered to be the centre.
Bilston-born Samuel Griffiths, in his 1876 Griffiths Guide to the Iron Trade of Great Britain, stated: "The Black Country commences at Wolverhampton, extends a distance of sixteen miles to Stourbridge, eight miles to West Bromwich, penetrating the northern districts through Willenhall to Bentley, The Birchills, Walsall and Darlaston, Wednesbury, Smethwick and Dudley Port, West Bromwich and Hill Top, Brockmoor, Wordsley and Stourbridge. As the atmosphere becomes purer, we get to the higher ground of Brierley Hill, nevertheless here also, as far as the eye can reach, on all sides, tall chimneys vomit forth great clouds of smoke".
Today the term commonly refers to the majority of the four metropolitan boroughs of Dudley, Sandwell, Walsall and Wolverhampton, although it is said that "no two Black Country men or women will agree on where it starts or ends"' (Taken from the historical records. )
Wolves have always been number 1 and the baggies second to we. Even they admit it(silently). We are both part of the original 12. Wolves ay we.
Walsall and Wolverhampton’s Black Country status was secure throughout the 19th century and the first half of the 20th, with Arthur Mee positing that Wolverhampton was the “capital of The Black Country” in The King's England: Staffordshire (1937). Both boroughs were expanded to include increasingly suburban outskirts, which may have influenced the Dudley-centric publication The BlackCountryMan (and later, the Black Country Bugle) to perpetuate the idea that neither borough was part of the region (although the Bugle now includes content on all four boroughs). The towns of Dudley and Tipton are today generally considered to be the centre.
Bilston-born Samuel Griffiths, in his 1876 Griffiths Guide to the Iron Trade of Great Britain, stated: "The Black Country commences at Wolverhampton, extends a distance of sixteen miles to Stourbridge, eight miles to West Bromwich, penetrating the northern districts through Willenhall to Bentley, The Birchills, Walsall and Darlaston, Wednesbury, Smethwick and Dudley Port, West Bromwich and Hill Top, Brockmoor, Wordsley and Stourbridge. As the atmosphere becomes purer, we get to the higher ground of Brierley Hill, nevertheless here also, as far as the eye can reach, on all sides, tall chimneys vomit forth great clouds of smoke".
Today the term commonly refers to the majority of the four metropolitan boroughs of Dudley, Sandwell, Walsall and Wolverhampton, although it is said that "no two Black Country men or women will agree on where it starts or ends"' (Taken from the historical records. )
Wolves have always been number 1 and the baggies second to we. Even they admit it(silently). We are both part of the original 12. Wolves ay we.
@OldWolflad 2 weeks ago (edited)
In all honesty, back in the 70s and 80s, we never saw Albion as a Black Country club, being situated more or less in Handsworth. Likewise, and over the past 20 years, Albion seem to have gone to great lengths to claim their Black Country status whilst Wolves don't seem too bothered as a club, perhaps because our owners are Chinese. Their fans like to claim the majority of Wolves fans come from Staffordshire, and whilst its true we do have a strong fanbase in places like Cannock, Stafford, and also in Shropshire in Telford area, Albion have a strong element of their support from Brum and Worcestershire. I will come back to that in a moment.
As for the definition of the Black Country, people understandably tend to rely on the 1960s definition of the Black Country Society which purposely tried to exclude Wolverhampton by saying it was only where thick coal seam lay. Now we have access to on-line documents and newspaper articles from the Industrial Revolution period of the mid-1800s, when the area actually got its name, we can see that Wolverhampton with its vast ironworks and coal mines as close to the city centre as Horseley Fields (last tram stop) was clearly considered Black Country, and not only that, because Dudley town centre lay in an enclave of Worcestershire, it could not at that point in time claim to be the Capital of the region that lay in an adjoining county (i.e the great South Staffordshire coalfield). County status was important to people back then. This 'County-issue' for Dudley town (Worcestershire) was even highlighted by the editor of the 'Dudley Chronicle' on 7 June 1913, who wrote: - "Some correspondence has taken place this week as to which town is the 'Capital of the Black Country'. The honour is claimed for Wolverhampton, but a writer has now also claimed it for Dudley. I don't think there will be too much quarrelling in Dudley. As a matter of fact, Dudley is by no means 'Black Country', although surrounded by it. Dudley too, is in Worcestershire while the generic term 'Black Country' has, I always understood, been taken to mean the iron and coal-producing fields of South Staffordshire. Dudley can afford to let that honour pass".
Indeed, lots of 1850s documents considered Wolverhampton to be the 'Capital or Metropolis of the Black Country'. The Black Country Society and Museum, with its emphasis on Dudley, are not likely to acknowledge this easy-to-check fact as they have built an entire economic money-generating feature centering on Dudley. Many writers in the 1850s described Wolverhampton, when viewed from Dudley Castle, as the area with the greatest smog due to its forest of chimneys and furnaces. Having said that, in no way can Wolverhampton's western suburbs such as Penn, Finchfield, Tettenhall be considered Black Country by the original coal and iron definition. West Bromwich was then quite an upper working-class / middle class environment.
For me, both clubs are effectively Black Country clubs with no real claim over the other for it. The general Black Country area is sandwiched between the two grounds, and the support for each club fairly equal I would say. Also bare in mind Wolves colours are said to represent the flame of the furnace and the black of the coal. And out cities motto is "Out of Darkness Cometh Light" - both symptomatic of a Black Country origin.
As for the Albion argument that most Wolves support lies in Staffordshire and not the West Midlands, a 2023 Premier League study over eight months showed that Wolves had the third highest level of local support at 81% (living within 7 miles of Molineux) , just behind Brentford at 83% and Newcastle at 82%.
Someone also did a study in 2500 Wolves supporters location's in 2020, from the 'Dingles Ay We' Facebook site and it threw up Wolves fan locations as the following (I copied and pasted it at the time): -
1) Wolverhampton 632 (Pop. 263,000) (may also include Wednesfield or Bilston depending on individual interpretation)
2) Cannock 142 (Pop. 101,000) (90% of those from Cannock / Cheslyn Hay / Great Wyrley, and a few from Hednesford).
3) Dudley 101 (Pop 84,000) (mainly areas to north of town centre like Wren's Nest)
4) Walsall 100 (Pop. 73,000) (mostly from Walsall North and West, such as Bloxwich, Mossley, Beechdale, Short Heath and Alumwell)
5) Gornal 83 (Pop. 13,000) (mostly from Lower Gornal)
6) Sedgley 80 (Pop. 12,000)
7) Telford 77 (Pop. 151,000) (includes all of Telford and Wrekin towns)
8) Willenhall 72 (Pop. 28,000)
9) Wednesfield 69 (Pop. 23,000)
10) Stourbridge 66 (Pop. 65,000) (including Wollaston, Amblecote, Norton, Lye)
11) Bilston 65 (Pop. 25,000)
12) Tipton 60 (Pop. 38,000) (mostly from Princes End)
13) Brierley Hill 52 (Pop. 32,000)
14) Stafford 51 (Pop. 71,000)
15) Darlaston 46 (Pop. 21,000)
16) Kingswinford 45 (Pop. 25,000)
17) Birmingham 40 (Pop. 1, 111,000)
18) Codsall 36 (Pop. 12,000) (Codsall and Bilbrook areas equally).
19) Coseley 34 (Pop. 12,000)
20) Worcester 32 (Pop 103,000)
21) Wombourne 29 (Pop 13,000)
22) Shrewsbury 27 (Pop. 76,000)
23) Penkridge 26 (Pop. 8,000)
24) Kidderminster 25 (Pop. 58,000) (includes a few from Bewdley)
25) Halesowen 24 (Pop. 23,000)
26) Bridgnorth 23 (Pop. 13,000)
27) Wordsley 21 (Pop. 13,000)
28) Pensnett 18 (13,000)
29) Bloxwich 15 (Pop. 25,000) (many in Walsall total may also be from Bloxwich)
30) Wednesbury 15 (Pop, 19,000)
31) Netherton 15 (Pop. 15,000)
32) Rugeley 14 (Pop. 25,000)
33) Lichfield 13 (Pop. 34,000)
34) Newport 11 (Pop. 13,000)
35) Shifnal 10 (Pop. 7,000)
36) Kinver 9 (Pop. 5,000)
37) Stourport 9 (Pop. 21,000)
38) Cradley Heath 8 (Pop. 14,000)
39) Oldbury 8 (Pop. 26,000)
40) West Bromwich 8 (Pop.78,000)
41) Tamworth 7 (Pop.74,000)
42) Rowley Regis 6 (Pop. 36,000)
43) Burntwood 6 (Pop. 29,000)
44) Redditch 6 (Pop. 83,000)
45) Brownhills 5 (Pop. 21,000)
46) Hagley 5 (Pop. 6,000)
47) Pershore 5 (Pop. 8,000)
48) Tividale 4 (Pop. 13,000)
49) Evesham 4 (Pop. 28,000)
50) Aldridge 3 (Pop. 39,000)
51) Ludlow 3 (Pop. 11,000)
52) Malvern 3 (Pop. 30,000)
53) Bromsgrove 2 (Pop. 36,000)
54) Smethwick 1 (Pop. 53,000)
55) Droitwich 1 (Pop. 24,000)
Out of Midlands area 326 (ALL other areas outside Midlands) - 13% of our support.
Quite clearly, the bulk of Wolves support come from the four Black Country boroughs. Hope this is of vague interest. As for Sunday, as a Wolves fan I am not at all confident!
As for the definition of the Black Country, people understandably tend to rely on the 1960s definition of the Black Country Society which purposely tried to exclude Wolverhampton by saying it was only where thick coal seam lay. Now we have access to on-line documents and newspaper articles from the Industrial Revolution period of the mid-1800s, when the area actually got its name, we can see that Wolverhampton with its vast ironworks and coal mines as close to the city centre as Horseley Fields (last tram stop) was clearly considered Black Country, and not only that, because Dudley town centre lay in an enclave of Worcestershire, it could not at that point in time claim to be the Capital of the region that lay in an adjoining county (i.e the great South Staffordshire coalfield). County status was important to people back then. This 'County-issue' for Dudley town (Worcestershire) was even highlighted by the editor of the 'Dudley Chronicle' on 7 June 1913, who wrote: - "Some correspondence has taken place this week as to which town is the 'Capital of the Black Country'. The honour is claimed for Wolverhampton, but a writer has now also claimed it for Dudley. I don't think there will be too much quarrelling in Dudley. As a matter of fact, Dudley is by no means 'Black Country', although surrounded by it. Dudley too, is in Worcestershire while the generic term 'Black Country' has, I always understood, been taken to mean the iron and coal-producing fields of South Staffordshire. Dudley can afford to let that honour pass".
Indeed, lots of 1850s documents considered Wolverhampton to be the 'Capital or Metropolis of the Black Country'. The Black Country Society and Museum, with its emphasis on Dudley, are not likely to acknowledge this easy-to-check fact as they have built an entire economic money-generating feature centering on Dudley. Many writers in the 1850s described Wolverhampton, when viewed from Dudley Castle, as the area with the greatest smog due to its forest of chimneys and furnaces. Having said that, in no way can Wolverhampton's western suburbs such as Penn, Finchfield, Tettenhall be considered Black Country by the original coal and iron definition. West Bromwich was then quite an upper working-class / middle class environment.
For me, both clubs are effectively Black Country clubs with no real claim over the other for it. The general Black Country area is sandwiched between the two grounds, and the support for each club fairly equal I would say. Also bare in mind Wolves colours are said to represent the flame of the furnace and the black of the coal. And out cities motto is "Out of Darkness Cometh Light" - both symptomatic of a Black Country origin.
As for the Albion argument that most Wolves support lies in Staffordshire and not the West Midlands, a 2023 Premier League study over eight months showed that Wolves had the third highest level of local support at 81% (living within 7 miles of Molineux) , just behind Brentford at 83% and Newcastle at 82%.
Someone also did a study in 2500 Wolves supporters location's in 2020, from the 'Dingles Ay We' Facebook site and it threw up Wolves fan locations as the following (I copied and pasted it at the time): -
1) Wolverhampton 632 (Pop. 263,000) (may also include Wednesfield or Bilston depending on individual interpretation)
2) Cannock 142 (Pop. 101,000) (90% of those from Cannock / Cheslyn Hay / Great Wyrley, and a few from Hednesford).
3) Dudley 101 (Pop 84,000) (mainly areas to north of town centre like Wren's Nest)
4) Walsall 100 (Pop. 73,000) (mostly from Walsall North and West, such as Bloxwich, Mossley, Beechdale, Short Heath and Alumwell)
5) Gornal 83 (Pop. 13,000) (mostly from Lower Gornal)
6) Sedgley 80 (Pop. 12,000)
7) Telford 77 (Pop. 151,000) (includes all of Telford and Wrekin towns)
8) Willenhall 72 (Pop. 28,000)
9) Wednesfield 69 (Pop. 23,000)
10) Stourbridge 66 (Pop. 65,000) (including Wollaston, Amblecote, Norton, Lye)
11) Bilston 65 (Pop. 25,000)
12) Tipton 60 (Pop. 38,000) (mostly from Princes End)
13) Brierley Hill 52 (Pop. 32,000)
14) Stafford 51 (Pop. 71,000)
15) Darlaston 46 (Pop. 21,000)
16) Kingswinford 45 (Pop. 25,000)
17) Birmingham 40 (Pop. 1, 111,000)
18) Codsall 36 (Pop. 12,000) (Codsall and Bilbrook areas equally).
19) Coseley 34 (Pop. 12,000)
20) Worcester 32 (Pop 103,000)
21) Wombourne 29 (Pop 13,000)
22) Shrewsbury 27 (Pop. 76,000)
23) Penkridge 26 (Pop. 8,000)
24) Kidderminster 25 (Pop. 58,000) (includes a few from Bewdley)
25) Halesowen 24 (Pop. 23,000)
26) Bridgnorth 23 (Pop. 13,000)
27) Wordsley 21 (Pop. 13,000)
28) Pensnett 18 (13,000)
29) Bloxwich 15 (Pop. 25,000) (many in Walsall total may also be from Bloxwich)
30) Wednesbury 15 (Pop, 19,000)
31) Netherton 15 (Pop. 15,000)
32) Rugeley 14 (Pop. 25,000)
33) Lichfield 13 (Pop. 34,000)
34) Newport 11 (Pop. 13,000)
35) Shifnal 10 (Pop. 7,000)
36) Kinver 9 (Pop. 5,000)
37) Stourport 9 (Pop. 21,000)
38) Cradley Heath 8 (Pop. 14,000)
39) Oldbury 8 (Pop. 26,000)
40) West Bromwich 8 (Pop.78,000)
41) Tamworth 7 (Pop.74,000)
42) Rowley Regis 6 (Pop. 36,000)
43) Burntwood 6 (Pop. 29,000)
44) Redditch 6 (Pop. 83,000)
45) Brownhills 5 (Pop. 21,000)
46) Hagley 5 (Pop. 6,000)
47) Pershore 5 (Pop. 8,000)
48) Tividale 4 (Pop. 13,000)
49) Evesham 4 (Pop. 28,000)
50) Aldridge 3 (Pop. 39,000)
51) Ludlow 3 (Pop. 11,000)
52) Malvern 3 (Pop. 30,000)
53) Bromsgrove 2 (Pop. 36,000)
54) Smethwick 1 (Pop. 53,000)
55) Droitwich 1 (Pop. 24,000)
Out of Midlands area 326 (ALL other areas outside Midlands) - 13% of our support.
Quite clearly, the bulk of Wolves support come from the four Black Country boroughs. Hope this is of vague interest. As for Sunday, as a Wolves fan I am not at all confident!
@nevergonnauseem 2 weeks ago
Its a little insulting to hear ppl from Wolverhampton claim its the Black Country, even worse that there have been suggestions its the capital of the Black Country in the past. People in the wider borough are, places like Bilston and Wednesfield, but not Wolverhampton itself. Sure its open to speculation, but i'd side with the Black Country Society and their definition as it was. Furthermore, i recall the time Wolverhampton Council used the Black Country as a marketing gimmick to attract more investment into the place, and the claims of it being Black Country sprung from there. To summarise, places in Wolverhampton borough, yes, Wolverhampton itself? No.
Now, West Bromwich. There is no doubt the town of West Bromwich is a Black Country town. Its proximity to Brum makes it an easy target for people trying to detract the claim. As doea its dialing code and postal codes. But Tipton has an 0121 dialing code, and Tipton could easily lay claim to being the capital of the Black Country. Using the same logic, Bilsyon has a Wolverhampton post code, try telling the residents of Bilston that THEY are from Wolverhampton, especially the older ones and you'll be told where to go. There are areas close to West Bromwich like Smethwick with more dubious claims, but West Bromwich IS a Black Country town. The argument between the two has been hijacked by football fans over the years. Wolves fans desperate to claim and identity and Albion fans desperate to mock them for it.
Now, West Bromwich. There is no doubt the town of West Bromwich is a Black Country town. Its proximity to Brum makes it an easy target for people trying to detract the claim. As doea its dialing code and postal codes. But Tipton has an 0121 dialing code, and Tipton could easily lay claim to being the capital of the Black Country. Using the same logic, Bilsyon has a Wolverhampton post code, try telling the residents of Bilston that THEY are from Wolverhampton, especially the older ones and you'll be told where to go. There are areas close to West Bromwich like Smethwick with more dubious claims, but West Bromwich IS a Black Country town. The argument between the two has been hijacked by football fans over the years. Wolves fans desperate to claim and identity and Albion fans desperate to mock them for it.
Wolves vs West Brom: Who Really Owns the Black Country?
This Is Molineux
1,208 views
The Black Country Derby is back — but what does it actually mean to “own” the Black Country?
In this Old Gold Standard episode, I look beyond the usual match preview and explore the rivalry between Wolves and West Brom through its history, identity and changing meaning across generations.
From both clubs being founding members of the Football League, to the 1953/54 season when Wolves finished champions and Albion runners-up, the head-to-head record, trophies, changing Black Country boundaries, famous derby memories and the players who crossed the divide — including Steve Bull — this rivalry has constantly evolved.
And with the derby returning again this weekend, there’s one final question: does anyone really own the Black Country permanently, or do you simply earn the right to claim it until the next meeting?
Topics include: Wolves vs West Brom history, the 1950s golden era, all-time records, Black Country identity, Steve Bull and the players who crossed the divide, and what this derby means today.
🐺 Come on you Wolves.
#Wolves #WWFC #WestBrom #WBA #BlackCountryDerby #ThisIsMolineux #Championship