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WOTC Messed Up: This Precon Wins With ONE Card

Wild Card Commander

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The new Jace precon has an infinite combo straight out of the box. Dack Fayden, Helping Hand puts Venser, Fervent Forger onto the battlefield, hands him to an opponent, and then Venser's trigger can target himself. Loop it and you get endless copies of your opponents' whole board.

Here's how it works, why it's legal, how often it'll happen, and how to stop it if someone pulls it on you.

Would you let this fly at your table? Tell me in the comments.
Discord: Discord: discord

0:00 An infinite combo in the box
0:33 Dack and Venser
1:16 How the combo works
2:46 Why Venser can target himself
3:22 How often it happens
4:03 The catch (Darksteel Angel)
4:51 How to stop it
5:17 The Venser problem
5:36 Did Wizards mess up?
6:24 Recap

Found by u/Huaojozu on r/magicTCG: Reddit: 1wmdp45

Multiverse Reforged decklist: https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/ann...
Comprehensive Rules (603.3, 603.3a, 603.3d, 608.2b, 704.5j): https://magic.wizards.com/en/rules

#MTG #Commander #edh

20 Comments

@TheGamingSpartanA113 3 days ago (edited)

I took both out because whipping out polymorphed big creatures is more fun than playing solitaire for 30 minutes a turn. Also subbed because thank you for the simple explanation.

@ThisNameIsBanned 3 days ago

Dack Jesus has many combos, even as a COmmander itself could even be cEDH viable, as you get guaranteed packages that win you the game.

Venser is also a combo piece, not so much as a Commander, but in the spirit of Kiki Jiki you combo with red cards that make tokens.

@shawnCockerham559 3 days ago

A buddy of mine pulled a borderless Dack Fayden from a collector booster and gave it to me because this sort of gimmick fits my playstyle. I was already looking to buy the precon, now it's 100% guaranteed to be integral to my next brew.

@_Lex_9 1 day ago

2:07, I dont understand how you can steal the other permanents, wouldnt the legendary rule make you sacrifice the venser copy before its effect resolves? thus leaving you with just 1 venser trigger? pls help

@mtggodzilla7308 3 days ago

Nice combo and very good explanation. Subscribed. 👍

@emersonreyes9724 18 hours ago

Want a board with full of venser? Just add a card with "legendary rule does not apply" so once it was given it's already end game...

@purp4168 3 days ago

I got this on my first Jace trigger. We didn't know how Dack worked, so my opponent got Venser, and almost got convinced to copy Dack. My other opponent got Serra's angel (I can't remember the name) so he was immune to creatures

@hudaphux 2 days ago

There's always scooping when you're given the venser so it doesn't go off.

@iamsushi1056 1 day ago

I really hope Dack becomes a game changer. All the decks I’ve seen with him at the head are nightmares

@cptnquick 2 days ago

Let’s go for it!

@SyckestBlah 3 days ago

People have tried building mono white piles of blinks to have Dack as the commander and win on entering...
Also, I think Red Venser (Renser?) makes for a cool commander where you can threaten to copy any big bomb your opponents might think about playing, both spells and permanents, and when you are ready, you just flash him in at the last second, Harmless Offering him to someone, then Heat Shimmer/Cursed Mirror him for the win.

@Dragon00004 3 days ago

It's not the first time they put infinite combos in a pre con, the auntie ool pre con has 1 as well with one of the pieces being redundant, granted it is a 3 card infinite but one of them is your commander

@rajamicitrenti 6 hours ago

Or you can rule 0 announce that you won't copy Venser.

@alexandercastleberry480 17 hours ago

Why are you assuming people will play with the deck as built? Why not put just 4 creatures in the Deck? Dak Venser Emrakul Ulamog…. Hasty annihilator?

@Senpai_Namurai 23 hours ago

Combine with The Master Multiplied very much in color for the deck. Keep everything you little thief 🤗

@gustavopaiva6153 3 days ago

U can ask if your friend accept if u can only copy him 2x or 3x

@KyuuMoo 14 hours ago

Frankly, infinite combos should be banned in Magic. Or at the very least limited to a certain amount of loops. They could easily add a rule, like "no more than 3 loops." But of course, it would piss off all the players who aren't skilled enough to win without relying on an infinite combo. Playing Magic with these types of combos is just a race to see who pulls off their infinite combo first. I guess that could be fun if everyone is doing it, like once in awhile. But when you're sitting down for an hour long game of 4-player commander and the game is over in like 10 minutes...depending on who I'm playing with, I might just tell the person "okay, you had your fun, now we're gonna play the rest of the game without you."

@DeepFleeceheart 2 days ago

Subbed and joined your patreon (at the free tier for now, medical bill suuuuuck)

@RobNomad 2 days ago

i think the chance is not 3/17, is 1/17+1/16+1/15

@schumerus6786 3 days ago

If playing precons: The combo is really funny, I would accept it existing as long as it’s not done on purpose. If the opponent brainstorms and then casts Dack and the next card is Venser, you know he did it on purpose. If he randomly gets it, good for him! He could also have given the angel away at te same likelihood
If not playing precons and at least a higher bracket: Yep, hit me with it, it’s getting sworded instantly haha