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Reference Tracks Vs Originality - Can It Be Done?

Bthelick

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videos mentioned:
the 3 Rs
The 3 R's: 3 Simple Rules For Better Tracks

00:00 - Intro
00:30 - never always
03:30 - diversify
06:00 - method formally known as collab
08:22 - practice isn't performance
09:55 - what makes a good reference

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I am a professional musician, songwriter and sample creator who brings the world of music theory into electronic music. I help and collaborate with producers, djs, musicians, rappers, singers and songwriters creating new music and I also create instrumentals & sample packs of musical licks, guitar stems and melodies

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20 Comments

@Jack_Roze 1 month ago

Always appreciate your voice of reason through all the madness on YouTube. I’m only two years in and admittedly still struggle with a lot of this, but your videos have been hugely helpful and I feel the progress!

@DeliciousManX 1 month ago

It's funny you put out this video right now. I just released a track (encouraged by your videos about ~finishing~ your tracks and release them when they're good enough and not letting them rot in backlog purgatory). I cobbled the track together with many references, but they weren't true references, more so inspirations for the kind of vibe I was meandering towards. I felt weird because I was like, "oh my gosh, I don't have any references, is this going to sound OK?" Maaaaan, it was the best track I've bounced yet. I was blasting it in my car yesterday and I couldn't believe I made something that sounded so complete. It's because I've been putting a lot of the lessons you teach in your videos to use. Hell, my sound design was good enough, I didn't have to master it at all (I did put a PRO-Q with a -3dB flat tilt at 1000HZ just to boost the bass a little and deemphasize the high freq just a hair, but I don't count that as mastering). Thanks for sharing your knowledge. It really helps little guys like me. We really appreciate it.

@nickyjmusic 1 month ago

Your sheer understanding of music production is unparalleled, yet your honesty and genuine good intention towards the viewers goes beyond that and is something rarely ever seen. Thank you for that; it's so rare, and yet so important!

@bedrah10 1 month ago

Hi Ben I think you've hit the nail on the head with the prince example. I think must of us who are trying to achieve release ready music dont realise the work that is required. But on the other hand we can only do what we can do at that moment in time with our progression. And I agree referencing is a big part of that. The problem with most referencing videos is they only show you how to plan out arrangements. No one goes into detail of picking out drums, matching a groove, or using it for sound select. A video on this would be appreciated. Thanks again for all you do for the music making community 🙏

@LesterBrunt 1 month ago

2:45 yeah my mixing mentor who was an actual pro and did some really big projects always just flat out told me "it is going to take 10 years at least to get a basic understanding of how volume should be balanced". And it is true, it is now 15 years later and I'm just starting to feel like I'm getting the basic hang of it.

@raulrochaotaviano 4 weeks ago

Hey B, as always you are touching on the 20% of the knowledge that make up for 80% of the result. Thanks for your content man. It amazes me that you give all these lessons for free. Your videos have been helping me a lot. You're awesome!

@TakeOneRecordsOfficial 1 month ago

Referencing is important. But the moment people reference arrangement and use the same sounds, that's where originality disappears. And you can see that especially in the tech house scene and the whole "business" and melodic techno.

@outphase78 1 month ago (edited)

I love this topic. There's a book called "Steal Like an Artist" by Austin Kleon. After reading, it truly unlocked an entirely new perspective for me about what it actually MEANS to be creative. Especially when I was a young bright-eyed creative who wanted to express myself by being different.
The fact of the matter is...nothing is original.
Everything is inspired because that's how we as humans operate. We add and subtract to what we already know, we can't just "POOF" out of thin air invent something that we can't fathom.

Anyways, a good topic in the book was how he breaks down there is a good way and a bad way to "steal" art. It's good to study artists...many of them and even CREDIT them. It's bad to plagiarize and call it your own. In summary, this is what referencing is all about. Learning from the greats, accepting that we need training wheels to start, until we don't and then we can break the rules. It's foolish for someone to think they can skip the process with shortcuts.

@chameleonedm 1 month ago (edited)

I think the bullet to bite early is that originality in music is something that comes a bit later. Demanding originality of yourself before you can see how all the aspects of a track interact is an expectation that really isn't fair to put on yourself. Real originality comes from play in my experience, not an internal demand for it. The fastest I ever learn is by breaking down other tracks and trying to re-create them to the best of my ability. It forces you to listen actively, and you get to see why the choices were made. Then you're left with a bunch of tools that when you want to write you can easily reach for. I don't think the best artists sit down to write a magnum opus, I think the best artists explore new ideas at such a speed that eventually something falls out that is truly great

@Inzzide-R 1 month ago

I'll jump in here.

The man is bang on with this video.

If you're a relatively new producer without 10,000 hours and you're not Prince then just reference, reference and reference.

Referencing is an art in itself, you need to learn how to do it and it takes a bit of time to understand how, where and why. BUT it is the quickest way to upskill and get release ready tracks out there.

You will NEVER reference a track (and really you should use 2 or 3) and (unless you've copied all the melodies etc) have it sound anything like the original.

It only takes about 3 changes for it to sound "original".

Always use tracks that are no more than 2 years old, production levels change and advance very quickly these days.

If you learn how to reference properly (any genre) you're going to learn so much about structure, composition, sound selection and mixing it's going to save you many many of those 10,000 hours and be a shortcut you won't regret.

Swallow your pride about being individual. You're not copying anything, you're learning from the best and before you know it you'll be the person people are referencing.

@Panflutemaverick 1 month ago

Every time I try to reverse engineer a reference track, I get a cruddy song. I do like to listen to a a track, and get inspiration from them. I think a better term for ME, at least, is an inspiration track.

@elmarhinz3076 1 month ago

I think it's not only a matter of the context of the track, it is also a matter of your own personality. You can learn by example. You can learn by understanding the musical relations. Everybody learns differently. I still like to go without a reference track, to discover to what result the musical relations lead to. When I understand the relations I may use a reference track later on. At that point I don't blindly copy but I can understand the choices made by the track.

@jenkims1953 1 month ago

Before watching the video i am saying yes

@CookSC. 1 month ago

Love this type of video that you do, they always makes me feel better about my progress, reminding me that I shouldn't sound like the finished article just yet, and that is to be expected as a beginner/amateur; same as you wouldn't expect a student in school to magically know everything about a subject within a few lessons, knowledge & experience come with time.

I was talking with Wyrd on his Discourse Forum about feedback & referencing, saying that I really struggle with referencing as I find it too restrictive; I either feel like I'm copying/stealing too much, which is unoriginal & potentially unethical, or I'm comparing my amateur sound to something I can't yet achieve, both of which sap my enthusiasm & freedom to create. Maybe using references correctly is a skill I'll eventually learn, but right now, I think I simply lack the confidence required to implement it into my process without negativity taking control 😅

Great video as always, Ben! See you on Sunday's Livestream! 😎

@San7hos 1 month ago

sorry I've been a bit distant. your content is still top notch and I stand by all in this video

@sword-and-shield 1 month ago

The whole of all forms of art are based around "referencing" others artists works. By sight, by ear, by experiencing. Original works still got produced over the centuries. Solid vid for getting one zoomed in with the how's.

@tweedlanestudios 1 month ago

Excellent video! Was an honor to be called out - even if it's to tell me I was wrong :-) The selection of reference tracks from a quality standpoint makes a lot of sense - especially for those using references for musical elements, groove, "success" in that destination of choice!

On an adjacent note: The hard truth about knowing how to "listen" - including the reference from Gregory Scott - and what it takes to become a pro-grade mix engineer really resonates. I've been involved in electronic music since the 90s (on and off for long periods of time admittedly) but I'm still very aware how far away I am from the quality guys like yourself can produce with ease.

It gets me thinking .. the recent generation of house DJs/producers who are knocking out amazing hits; fantastically produced and mastered have to be using pro engineers somewhere in their process, right? Outside of the really minimal stuff it's hard to se how those with such limited experience can write, produce and engineer top-flight stuff. Or do they have the reference track process nailed ?

@BudoReflex_1 1 month ago

I was literally thinking this is what i needed to do over the last few days. Drum over reference tracks to get the dynamics i want.

@seabsfam 1 month ago

Thank you Ben as always you humble us and you made me feel better about my journey as you always have ❤❤❤❤

@luisordonez4133 1 month ago

Words of wisdom, we all heard it from the genius himself. Takes all those years to start getting the hang of it. Considering myself 15+ years into music production and mixing. It had been a journey but finally most of the sounds of a track come to my ears in a complete different way. Thanks main for all the knowledge you share with all of us. Like you say when your mixing skills are so good. There’s no need for mastering. . 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥