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John Swinney: Identity, Independence, and The Future of Scotland

The Rest Is Politics: Leading

61,556 views

What is the future of the Scottish independence movement? How does the SNP rebuild trust and support for independence after a series of bruising scandals? Why did the Scottish First Minister feel disrespected by a series of Conservative Prime Ministers?

Alastair and Rory are joined by Scottish First Minister John Swinney to answer all this and more.

For Leading listeners, there’s free access to the Wordsmith Academy - plus their report on the future of legal skills. Visit https://www.wordsmith.ai/politics

00:00 Intro
00:38 Wordsmith AI
02:00 Introducing John Swinney
09:40 How the SNP evolved from the 1960s to the 1990s
12:40 Changes in Scotland after 1997
16:40 Alex Salmond’s leadership style & political skills
20:45 Rebuilding the SNP after electoral collapse
25:00 Education standards, literacy & accountability
30:10 Health, drugs, obesity & prevention vs intervention
33:00 Inequality, taxation & wealth taxes
34:40 Has the SNP delivered after 18 years in power?
37:40 Scottish independence
46:10 Working with UK governments: Blair to Sunak
48:10 Starmer, cooperation & a changing tone
52:00 Leadership style, bridge-building & minority government
55:50 Family, wife’s illness & decisions about stepping aside
58:40 The Hebrides, Mary MacLeod & Donald Trump’s Scottish roots
1:00:50 Final reflections & outro

20 Comments

@patsy5487 5 months ago

Alistair and Rory are stereotypical Englishmen with a family connection to Scotland. And I know Rory would say he’s a Scot but no-one up here thinks that posh Anglo-Scot gentry are Scottish. They have a romantic attachment to the outward signs of Scottishness ( bagpipes, kilt, lochs & glens) but fail to recognise what the rest of us know - that Scotland sees itself as internationalist, inclusive, smart, creative and caring. That’s why we vote SNP -to be connected with the rest of the world as an equal nation in the international stage.

@ARLckie 9 months ago

I think a lot of Scots, and by that I mean a very strong majority of around 70-75% of voters, just look at what's happening in England and despair. Many of them will want a competent, resilient and principled Government capable of weathering the stormy waters to come but also one which will support our right to chose our constitutional future 12 years on from 2014.

Swinny really steadied the ship and has since pushed the SNP back into recovery - with 5 months of campaigning and a sense of urgency at the rise of Reform in England in particular, an emphatic victory in May looks all too possible. The same is true for the independence movement as a whole with the Scottish Greens making significant inroads to become perhaps even the first largest party. Labour floundering and Reform facing something of an inbuilt ceiling in Scotland is very fertile ground for the SNP, Greens and the independence movement generally.

@rabsrealm 9 months ago

I'm born and raised here in Scotland and don't see all of these BIG problems. I can see my GP when I need to within a few days, I had surgery within 3 months of diagnosis (a colleague of mine in England is still waiting for his surgery after 2 years), my grandkids are doing well at school and crime is lower than it's ever been in my area. Nothing Anas Sarwar or Labour are saying chimes with me. Kier Starmer's government is not fit for purpose dragging their Scottish branch office down with them and Reform & Conservatives are unelectable here. Unlike Mr Swinney's father, I'm quite happy to announce I'll vote SNP again next year. Not out of nationalism but because they are still governing well.

@sonofthesea 9 months ago (edited)

I am a photographer on a videographer, and I once had the pleasure of photographing a project where John Swiney had come to, you know, be the public figure for the photo. And he was a lovely person, and he deeply cared about the ecological project up in the Angus glenns. An all around decent guy.

@colincarson3537 9 months ago

Felt a certain sense of pride in being Scottish watching this. Swinney is clearly a decent guy who has the best interests of Scotland at heart. Really impressed with is performance here. Bravo!

@andrewmarshall5008 9 months ago

Is there anyone in the UK that is not wealthy that has not been disrespected by the tories? Thats what they do 🙄

@vivianjames9925 9 months ago

I don't think that John Swinney is the least bit dull; I think he's a man of integrity who considers his words before speaking, and that he's kind and genuine. That's not dull, it's just how one would wish more politicians would be.

@MartinFinnigan 8 months ago

Why is it when it comes to Scotland and independence, the Unionists always put Scotland up to achieve and perform at a higher standard than their own constituent country. Rory literally said, "we won't get anywhere when it comes to education, we don't really know education in Scotland" yet they are constantly attacking Scotlands education, NHS, etc. How about focus on England and its own problems instead of denying Scotlands' choice on how to govern itself while at the same time putting it on such a high, impossible to reach pedestal that it must achieve before independence is even taken seriously. It's poor politics and just widens the gap between the average voter and politicians.

@albannachaviation1786 9 months ago

As an SNP member i wasnt too excited when John stepped forward for FM/party leader however seeing how hes preformed i feel like scotland is in safe hands with him. The integrity, trust and stability we've seen proved me entirely wrong and i think my priorities have changed as i hoped for someone like Flynn - younger, louder (not a bad thing) and maybe more radical but in the state of the world Swinney is exactly the person we need. Whole heartedly believe he will get Scotland independence and do it with care, people in mind and with stability.

@objectivetruth56k 8 months ago

I've just been listening to BBC stats programme 'More or Less'.
In England & Wales only about 70% of cancer treatment starts within the target 62 days of diagnosis. In Scotland it is 95%.
So much for the alleged poor delivery of the SNP government asserted without evidence by the Tories and Labour, including by you Alistair and Rory! Nevertheless, I'm a frequent listener.

@patsy5487 5 months ago

I admire John Swinney so much. A great communicator of complex subjects who is not afraid to show his humanity. I’m proud to be a Scot and will be voting SNP on both regional and constituency ballots in May.

@MartinFinnigan 8 months ago

There is also a reason why Unionist politicians and even voters from other parts of the UK just don't get Scotland. Like how they are baffled being constantly told by London media that the SNP and an SNP led Scotland is a total failure. Yet the Scottish public since 2007 have consistently supported the SNP and kept them in power. Sometimes, they have been punished and bloodied, but they still hold power. Because the SNP, for all its faults. (No party is perfect) has been consistent on fighting for Scotlands voice. Even my Nan who absolutely despises the SNP will never vote Labour for the pure fact she doesn't trust a London centric party and that she doesn't believe that they will uphold free prescriptions and now the fall of peak fares on the trains when she goes her wee days out. She is a soft NO but I'm working on her 😂

@graemeglass7566 5 months ago

Yes indeed Scotland wants something but different. It wants Independence. It wants away from the Ying Yang two party Westminster nightmare. It wants to run it's own country and prioritize where the budget should be spent.

@nicholasmunro-clark6778 9 months ago

Really like this leader!!!! Clear calm and collected minded man. Seems very kind hearted! 👏👏👏👏

@PeteKerse 8 months ago

Although Scotland should decide w what military action their citizens are involved in. Scotland always provided a higher proportion of their population as troops for British military adventures overseas

@lynette. 9 months ago

Extremely personable and comes across as very honest.

@revolutionanyone8508 9 months ago

I'm actually so happy to live in Scotland, especially having been to England a lot and having English family. Scotland just gets things right. The healthcare is more accessible, I didn't pay tuition fees which set me up for life, as a gym enthusiast the meat we produce is cheaper than anywhere in Europe I've been. I could go on.

The more I see of Westminster the more I want their hands off our country.

@shahzadzafar71 9 months ago

I'm not an independent supporter. But Swinney is the most professional, dependable politician in the UK. He steadied the SNP after taking over from Yousaf, then adroitely managed the relationship with Westminster and also Trump during his visits.

@seanlittle1760 9 months ago

Rory and Alastair's equation of Brexit being the same thing as independence is really unfair. Brexit had literally no plan and was just a response to people hating immigrants. Scottish independence arises from Scotland consistently voting a specific way (left) and being essentially ignored because the the rest of the UK wants Boris or Farage, and Scotland is trapped to just accept the fact we live under a system we don't vote for. I don't understand, the rest of the UK parties just portray Scotland as a burden on Westminister for not "paying our fair share", why cant they just let us go then?

@suecole7338 9 months ago

Thank you for the engaging and insightful interview. The First Minister of Scotland, as well as the leader and constituency MSP, demonstrated professionalism and integrity, exemplifying the qualities expected of a dedicated public servant committed to serving his country and constituents. If Scotland were to attain independence, I believe his approach would align closely with that of Mark Carney. I hope that the UK Government will foster a greater level of respect toward him and the Scottish Government moving forward.