Thank you for the conversation — I can see there’s a genuine desire to make faith relevant to today’s generation, and I appreciate the honesty in sharing personal experiences. That said, I found much of the discussion to be heavily centered on self — self-discovery, self-fulfillment, personal calling — rather than on Christ, surrender, and obedience.

The message suggested that people are leaving the church because they can’t find meaning, purpose, or community there — and that we should show them the church provides those things too. But that’s exactly why the church is losing its relevance: it's trying to offer what the world already offers and the world often does it better. If people come to church for those things and find nothing beyond what they already have, they’ll leave. But if the church shows them God — who He is, His glory, His love  — and the eternal calling to live for something beyond ourselves, they won’t stop coming. At one point, the guest speaker also said that life is ultimately about discovering who you are — but biblically, life is not about discovering self, but denying self and discovering Christ (Galatians 2:20; Colossians 3:3).

Do we really believe the gospel is enough? If not, we’ve already lost the battle. But if we preach the full gospel — the call to die to self and our desires/passion, live for Christ, and join in His redemptive mission — people will be transformed. “For the message of the cross is the power of God” (1 Corinthians 1:18). No one else can offer that. Only Christ can.

We don’t need the church to replicate what the world provides — friendships, careers, creative expression. People are hungry to know: What lies beyond all that? The church must boldly proclaim: It is Christ — only Christ — who satisfies. A life of worship, surrender, fellowship rooted in the gospel, evangelism, using spiritual gifts, and obedience in these urgent times will fulfill us in a way no job, hobby, or worldly success ever can (John 6:35; Philippians 3:8).

I also found it concerning that the guest speaker, while still pastoring, spoke about pursuing art and business as a way to “find who he really is.” While passions aren’t wrong, this framing risks elevating self-fulfillment above surrender. He even mentioned that after overachieving for God in his earlier days, he felt he had “nothing to show for it” — as if faithful ministry, changed lives, and obedience to God were somehow insufficient because they didn’t align with his personal sense of meaning. But I would like to encourage this speaker, our identity is not something we discover by chasing desire — it’s received in Christ and formed in dying to self and our worldly passions (2 Corinthians 5:17; Luke 9:23–24). Especially for pastors, who have a special calling to model that surrender. If pastors are still trying to hold onto worldly pursuits or redefine ministry through the lens of personal satisfaction, what example are they giving those they lead?

Lastly, the guest speaker said something alone the lines that  “people have to live it to believe it themselves” and that there’s no point in telling them what to do. While this may sound freeing or respectful of personal process, it significantly weakens the biblical role of spiritual leadership. Scripture doesn’t call pastors to stand by silently — it calls them to teach, correct, and guide in love (2 Timothy 4:2). Of course, people must own their faith personally, but that doesn’t mean we abandon the responsibility to speak truth all the time, warn of danger, and call people to repentance and growth. The call of discipleship is not to merely observe someone’s journey, but to actively equip believers for maturity in Christ (Ephesians 4:11–13). Without clear instruction and loving correction, how will people know what it means to follow Jesus faithfully?

In short, while the tone was honest and relatable, I would have loved to hear more about the beauty of surrender, the cost of discipleship, and the unmatched joy of knowing Jesus. The church doesn’t need more mirrors of the world. It needs more bold, humble voices that proclaim: There is more. Christ is enough. Come and see.

超喜欢这集的访谈！困惑的问题也有了答案。牧师分享的想法和眼界很广，很不同。

There use to be a time Pastor need to work to support church and family for a time period, nowadays Pastor has good income from offering from members, wanted to persuade their own passion instead during office hours instead of focus to built God's house.

我想起了Kristen Butler的书 the comfort zone。 别再跳脱舒适圈，而是扩大舒适圈，利用自己的90%能力去学10%的未知

Amen

Love this podcast and always waiting for more !

如同55:46所說，台灣有些教會作銀髮事工，就是配合政府作的(周一到周五)，也可以申請政府補助(個人繳少許費用)，也有機會傳福音

7:25 11:37 16:37 21:54 23:57 27:02 29:05 42:04 1:00:09

To be honest, I think Ps Gin really need to pray whether God is calling you out to be a Pastor. In the interview, you think more about yourself of how to do more different or achieved more things other than being a pastor.

The Pastor role itself is holy and should focus to attend to your sheeps growing.   Something is not right with your heart and passion for Christ. When your heart is not satisfied with growing the house of God, maybe you are not called in the first place.

Don't compare or allow yourself to follow the footpath of the invited speaker just because he is doing what you wanted to do.   If you ready observed, external things the invited speaker doing is from his on worldly passion like designing, painting, coaching with Christianity package in it. But to be honest, It for his own glory and nothing to do with Christ.