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Harvey Mansfield on Machiavelli, Straussianism, and the Character of Liberal Democracy | CWT

Conversations with Tyler

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Few living scholars can claim to have shaped how we read Machiavelli as decisively as Harvey Mansfield. His new book, The Rise and Fall of Rational Control, argues that Machiavelli didn't just write about politics—he invented the intellectual machinery of the modern world, starting with the concept of "effectual truth," which Mansfield credits as the seed of modern empiricism. At 93, after 61 years of teaching at Harvard, Mansfield remains cheerfully unimpressed by most of contemporary philosophy, convinced that the great books are self-sustaining, and that irony is what separates serious philosophy from the rest.

Tyler and Harvey discuss how Machiavelli's concept of fact was brand new, why his longest chapter is a how-to guide for conspiracy, whether America's 20th-century wars refute the conspiratorial worldview, Trump as a Shakespearean vulgarian who is in some ways more democratic than the rest of us, why Bronze Age Pervert should not be taken as a model for Straussianism, the time he tried to introduce Nietzsche to Quine, why Rawls needed more Locke, what it was like to hear Churchill speak at Margate in 1953, whether great books are still being written, how his students have and haven't changed over 61 years of teaching, the eclipse rather than decline of manliness, and what Aristotle got right about old age and much more.

Recorded January 22nd, 2026

This episode was made possible through the support of the John Templeton Foundation.

Transcript and links: https://conversationswithtyler.com/ep...

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Timestamps
00:00:00 - Machiavelli’s "Effectual Truth"
00:05:50 - Conspiracy Theories
00:15:12 - The Vulgarity of Democracy
00:21:12 - The Future of Straussianism
00:44:58 - Why the Supply of Great Books has Dried Up
00:49:37 - Rational Control vs. Spontaneous Order
00:52:56 - Winston Churchill
00:57:20 - Students at Harvard
01:00:42 - Manliness
01:02:34 - Death and Politics

Image Credit: Erin Clark via Getty Images

20 Comments

@JamesStrock 6 months ago

Brilliant conversation! Thanks to Tyler and the legendary Professor Mansfield.

@noogie13 6 months ago

Mansfield! Very exciting guest.

@mikhailfranco 6 months ago (edited)

Short eloquent answers left me wanting more.
One of the few times when I wanted CWT to run for 2 or 3 hours,
iff such an old and distinguished man could have sustained the grilling.
But if not now, when? Never. All great minds will be lost. Treasure them now.

@BSamuel1776 4 months ago

Here are 5 core ideas of the political philosopher Leo Strauss, explained in simple, one-liner summaries:
Esoteric Writing: Great philosophers hid their true, dangerous ideas between the lines to protect themselves from persecution and avoid upsetting society.
The Ancients vs. Moderns: Ancient philosophy focused on virtue and how humans should live, while modern philosophy lowered the bar by focusing only on how humans actually live.
Reason vs. Revelation: There is an unresolvable, healthy tension between rational philosophy (reason) and religious faith (revelation), as neither can completely disprove the other.
Crisis of Modernity: Modern moral relativism and value-free science leave society defenseless because they claim we cannot rationally distinguish between good and evil.
Natural Right: True justice is not just a temporary human agreement or local custom; it is rooted in permanent, unchangeable human nature.

@neroclaudius8671 6 months ago

Tyler you must submit

@DaveRosenthal-h4m 3 days ago

Dr. Mansfield was the conservative stalwart at Harvard during the turbulent SDS 60’s. I was never fortunate enough to take his class, but I was able to meet with him once, when he generously offered advice to me on a thesis. I did, however, take “From Kant to Wittgenstein” with his lovely late wife, Professor Delba Winthrop.

@paulmacknight 6 months ago

Great talk, thanks Tyler

@patricksullivan4329 6 months ago

"The flavor of Italy" comes out in about 1/3 of Shakespeare's plays. Which is a very interesting phenomenon that most academics actively run away from.

@ChristopherJWolfe 3 months ago

On the first point about effectual truth - the word for "Please" in latin was "amabo te"

@doyle6000 3 months ago

I can't believe this conversation is freely available!!

@joebummer 6 months ago

I really enjoyed his candor something completely missing from today's academy. The great books provide an understanding of how thought and values change and develop over time. The current culture suffers greatly from presentism. Epistemic honesty is in short supply.

@jesus_g-v3h 6 months ago (edited)

Professor Mansfield is being coy here…he personally mentored Costin. Had many wonderful dinner conversations.

@ilikefIags 6 months ago

i followed as well as i could. i enjoyed that a lot. no doubt that professor mansfield is showing his age in some ways, but he's 93... i think he's incredibly sharp for 93.

@BSamuel1776 4 months ago

Or in plain words:

Reading Between the Lines: People in power, corporate bosses, or public figures often hide their real motives behind polite, careful language to avoid public backlash.

Aims vs. Reality: Instead of aiming for high ideals like virtue and duty, modern society often shapes its rules around our worst behaviors like greed and self-interest.

Logic vs. Faith: You can be guided by facts and science or by faith and tradition, but you cannot use one to completely disprove the value of the other.

The Trap of "Anything Goes": If we accept that every opinion is equally valid, we lose the ability to clearly call out and stop obviously bad behavior.

Deep Down Rightness: True fairness is not just what the government writes into law today; it is a permanent gut feeling shared by humans across history.

@Paulahereorthere 2 months ago

This should be taught in school. My lord. Harsh reality.

@DirtySanchez658 6 months ago

Larga vida al rey Carlos III.

@peterpiperthefirst9791 6 months ago

To my surprise I enjoyed this conversation. I studied political theory as an undergraduate, read a great deal of Strauss as a student at U of Chicago — and am generally skeptical of the Straussian approach, it strikes me as an intellectual fetish. On the other hand I consider familiarity with the “great books” essential. It is part of our human heritage, available to all, a gift to the life of the mind and spirit. Mansfield’s answers were cogent, even humble, throughout. He would have been a delight as a professor I suspect. I did get a chuckle over the Girard question. Peter Thiel is a loon (kindest word), antichrist nonsense etc — although it seems he’s appreciated by Tyler. Maybe he’s a great Machiavellian?

@tcveatch 3 months ago

The entirety of this conversation is name-dropping. You won't learn anything from actual explanation here. Maybe some corners of certain previously-learned constellations of author-name-identifiable ideas may be occasionally explained, but without knowing all the names, you won't discover the context, understand the corner, or capture the point. For almost everyone, this is a waste of time.

@Cholmondelay 6 months ago

Strauss really has minimal impact beyond a niche audience. Trash talk Rawls and Quine all you want, but they've left much more of an imprint on 20th Century philosophy.

@Paulahereorthere 2 months ago

I am new to this professor yet found the conversation riveting. But a few minutes before the end he makes a statement about feminism that made me cringe somewhat. Perhaps I will explore his views further.