I’m so grateful for ward radio and stick of Joseph, all the doubt that had started creeping in over the years has melted away and i have faith of so many things restored as they once were. The fun house mirrors have been transformed into true mirrors and I’m so grateful to be seeing clearly again.
As for typos, there’s an extra comma that got added to the word of wisdom that changes the meaning completely there too,i think in the 1940’s, that instead of eating meat not, only in winter, the original read eating meat not only in winter (but year round). It’s nice to see these things cleared up.
When i first heard of the Adam God doctrine I thought it was that Adam could become a God, the Adam is God never made sense when i read up on it, and now it does make sense as a title, because if Eve is the mother of all living, and the first of all women have been named Eve, it made sense that Adam was the first of all men as well, so thank you to everyone bringing the light and clarity to the topics. I appreciate you all so much!

My mission president once said, “There is no such thing as deep doctrine, there is only true doctrine and false doctrine.”

The power of punctuation:

1. Let’s eat grandma.
2. Let’s eat, grandma.

AD-AM is a title. In the earliest language that we know of (ancient Sumerian), it literally means "Father-Mother". The same construction is preserved in Chinese, the oldest language that we know of that is still spoken today, in 父母 (Fùmǔ, literally "father-mother"). This also explains why Genesis 5:2 (even without the JST) says, "He called THEIR name Adam". Adam is a title and it means Parents when used in the collective sense, or a married man when used to refer to a singular person.

I have had the privilege of meeting Jonah at a Stick of Joseph event recently in Eagle Idaho.  Extremely friendly, personable, and funny.  He has a new book coming out next year.  Jonah, if by chance you somehow come across this comment, thank you for the bagels!

And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgement-seat of Christ." The preponderance of the evidence always supports The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints against the so called issues raised by critics.

The fact that Adam is a title adds so much depth to the phrase: "Let us make man in our own likeness and image.

Jonah, please submit an article to the Liahona. If rejected, submit to LDS Living.  This is game changing!

So CS Lewis was basically preaching the Family Proclamation when calling the Pevensie children, children of Heavenly Parents. "Sons of [Father] Adam and daughters of [Mother] Eve."

Hey, I remember us having this conversation on the P&P Discord. LOL! Good to see the work I did helped you out. The first real use of the Adam–God idea as an anti-Mormon attack came from John Hyde Jr. in 1857, after he left the Church. In his book Mormonism: Its Leaders and Designs, he quoted Brigham Young’s teachings about Adam being the “God of this world” and used them as a weapon against LDS doctrine—that’s where the criticism really began.

On the subject of the Journal of Discourses, don’t forget what happened to George Watt. I copied this from somewhere and forget to include the reference.

Although it was privately printed, the Journal of Discourses was considered to be an official publication of the LDS Church. However, its contents were not always considered to be official statements of doctrine. The LDS Church currently states that the publication is not an official church publication. In distancing itself from the work, the church has encouraged its members to focus instead on canonized scripture.

In Utah, Watt worked as a reporter for the Deseret News and as a private clerk for Brigham Young. Using his skill as a stenographer, Watt began recording the sermons given by Young and other LDS Church leaders. Beginning in 1853, Watt published these sermons in a periodical known as the Journal of Discourses. Watt remained the primary editor of the Journal until 1868.

In 1869, Watt was disfellowshipped from the LDS Church for following the teachings of dissident William S. Godbe. Watt was identified as one of the leaders of the "Godbeites" and was disciplined by the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. Although Watt was initially repentant and desired to return to full fellowship in the LDS Church, by 1874 he was a devoted Godbeite and was excommunicated from the LDS Church on May 3, 1874.

The Godbeites were members of the Godbeite Church, officially called the Church of Zion, organized in 1870 by William S. Godbe. This dissident offshoot of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) was aimed toward embracing all belief systems. Known for mysticism, the church died out by the 1880s.
In 1868, Godbe and other Mormon merchants began criticizing the economic demands and policies of Brigham Young in Utah Magazine, a periodical that would eventually become The Salt Lake Tribune. Godbe and several other proponents were excommunicated from the church on October 25, 1869. Godbe wanted to reform the LDS Church and believed that political reform—namely breaking Young's control over secular matters in the territory—could help spur religious reform.

The Godbeites were the original core of Utah Territory's Liberal Party, although as the party became more explicitly anti-Mormon and critical of polygamy, the Godbeite influence on the Liberal Party died out.(Wikipedia)

The Godbeites formally declared their opposition to Brigham Young and Mormonism in October 1869. But movement had earlier roots. Its name came from London-born William S. Godbe. Twice shipwrecked as a youth, the sixteen-year-old Godbe walked to Utah following his conversion to Mormonism. He rose swiftly in the church. By the 1860s Godbe was a bishop's counselor, Brigham Young's friend and protégé, and, as owner of the Godbe Exchange Building that housed the Godbe-Mitchell drug and sundry business, was one of the territory's ten wealthiest men.

Returning to Utah, Godbe and Harrison at first chose not to emphasize their refined religious views. Instead, the two founded the Utah Magazine and increasingly used the forum to call in question Brigham Young's temporal policy. Their converts included T.B.H. Stenhouse, editor of the pro-Mormon Salt Lake Telegraph, and his wife Fanny; John Tullidge, musician brother of Edward; Fred A. Perris, merchant; Joseph Salisbury, labor leader and writer; George Watt, church recorder and formerly Brigham Young's personal secretary; and Henry Lawrence, partner in a leading Salt Lake City merchandising firm.

By early October 1869 there was no longer a question about the magazine's tone. Church officials apparently issued a caution, and followed it with mission calls to Harrison, Kelsey, and Shearman, apparently to test or renew their commitment to the Mormon Church. Several weeks later, the Utah Magazine answered with "The True Development of the Territory," an essay that argued for Utah mineral development. More than expressing a difference of opinion, it meant to force the issue by publicly repudiating Brigham Young's leadership. Indeed, the New York séance revelations promised that the issue of mining would be the means of overthrowing the Mormon theocracy. The Godbeite leaders were excommunicated on 25 October 1869.(source Utah education network)

Another thing to consider is Adam was dead and existed in the spirit realm. As a spirit he could not father a child with a physical body. He could not be resurrected because Christ was the first and before him no one was resurrected.

I heard echoes of this stuff on my mission, and even had a few elders say things like: "Oh, it's super deep doctrine, you don't want me to get into it." And I was always: "Yeah, you're right, I don't want you to get into it, because it's the literal definition of a piece of false doctrine that gained way too much traction in our imaginations for no good reason." That's always what I've felt about it, and it feels great to hear confirmation. Hebrew names and titles get messed up by us english-speakers all the frickin' time, of course Brigham Young was being misunderstood. English sucks, people are imperfect, and yet the restored gospel remains (and continues to be clarified). Thank you for this!!

The YouTube video Jonah is referring to about the "reliability" of what you read in the Journal of Discord is a FAIR-talk called: "How reliable is the Journal of Discourses" and the woman speaking is "LaJean Carruth" who apparently have helped with reading thousands of the original shorthand transcripts. It's a mind opening presentation. Here is a quote from it: "I cannot overstate that it is vital that we understand that what was published differs, often significantly from what the speaker actually said. That what we read in the Journal of discourses and in the Deseret News (which is the same material), is too often the words of George Watt and other shorthand reporters. Not the word of Brigham Young and other speakers…People leaving the church over what they read in the JoD are leaving the church over the wording of George D Watt and others."

She then goes on to show a bunch of examples on how just a single Brigham talk is seriously altered from what George had written in his Shorthand to what he wrote in his transcript into the JoD.

This much difference in perception of events without our modern accuracy in record keeping after only 200 years, and some people don't think the great apostasy could have happened. Imagine what Christianity would look like today if forced under governmental pressure and threat of death to bring every major denomination of Christianity together. Imagine a dictator trying to rule a growing number a Christians all willing to die for their faith but killing them just makes them martyrs and more come forward no matter how hard they try to stamp it out. Out of frustration and generations of killing their working class the dictator seeks to know what this massively disruptive group is even preaching, just to get multiple conflicting answers, partly because their communities fractured so much just to survive. Now imagine, Todays factions that all claim belief in Christ, being forced to work together under duress to come to a comprehensive agreement of what's actually doctrine and practices of your beliefs so the government can make accommodations and stop making martyrs, and overall work with our theology. Imagine the backroom dealings and compromises and reinventing/wordsmithing that would have to take place to bring everyone into agreement on viewpoints of doctrine, principles and ceremonial practices just so everyone could leave happy enough to not cause divisions that might just get them all executed.

Wonderful work guys, THANK YOU.  Already sharing this episode with some family.

Crazy! I’ve never heard this theory even born and raised in Utah and a lifetime member at 52. Interesting how certain places def hear dif things growing up in the church.

The one thing I note with many of the comments are conjecture, guesswork, insults but a distinct lack of research or evidence. To those who support their commentary, thank you for developing my understanding

"Of all the things that never happened, this never happened the most" - TRUE STATEMENT!

This is like music to my ears!! I was blessed to grow up in house where deep doctrine was tackled head on. One of the things we were taught was how names can also represent titles within the church. This is making me teary eyed as though it's confirming my childhood because unfortunately other members thought my family was crazy for our doctrinal ideas! Thanks for making my day and being bold enough to share  this publically...Jonah, like my father,  you are the man!!!

Awesome video and discussion. I read a dissertation signed off by Hugh Nibley  a friend gave me years ago that shows pretty much this same stuff. It doesn’t go over these same errors but recognizes the issues with nuance etc…