schrödinger's asshole: someone who is entirely joking and also entirely serious until they observe your reaction to the "joke"

I like how you compared this manosphere to gangsterism. A lot of young boys simply want a tribe/village to belong to - and these guys fill the gap unfortunately.

Yeah, the only times I've been invited on a yacht I've declined because I didn't want to literally be trapped on the water with some creeps I don't trust

My poverty trauma got me like: If i could make 60k for a year, I'd never have to work again. 😂😂😂

My dad left when I was 8 and I never saw him again. I'm turning 33 next week. I was lucky enough that my mom raised my brother and I instead of giving up on us too and sending us to an orphanage.
I have always known I am attracted to other men, and that's a quality my dad intensely hated in me.
The way so many guys in the manosphere are anti everyone, even themselves, makes me feel sad for them in the same way that therapy has made me feel sad for my own dad, who denied himself fatherhood, love, and belonging.
I only ever wish that all these men find a way to love themselves just a bit more.

Maybe it's a sign of the times and I'm dating myself here, but ridiculous online user names being uttered with a straight face and professional voice will never not be funny to me.

Dr. Ana, thank you so much for not farming for outrage with ridiculous thumbnails

"Social media incentivizes immoral behavior." BINGO.

I grew up poor with a single mom who had to work three jobs to get by.  One of the things she taught us was 'Being poor doesn't give you an excuse to be terrible' and also likes to ask "And do they plan to take all that money with them when they go?'  Not all poor people believe wealth is security.

Or happiness.  Edited.

I’m a mid 20’s man that’s been on the internet my whole life. I’ve gone through depression and anxiety. The manosphere was very tempting for me, but creators like you steered me down a different path. Thanks for that

Here's a woman who did get invited to yachts. It was in my 20s and I was being used, even though we all deluded ourselves that it was some type of power trip. I have not met a girl in those circles who was genuinely safe, happy and in control of the situation.
But on another note, this is a very useful take, Ana. Especially for the conversation on how to approach young men with options that are equally attractive, but better for them and the society. Most of my therapy clients are women, but some are young men and I'm learning from them how to provide them with what was missing, but in a way that is acceptable to them. I feel out of my depth some days, but I do my best, and so far they've been coming back and making changes.
On a funny note, even though I'm in Europe, manosphere, looksmaxing, clavicular, these are all topics of conversation in therapy sessions. Goes to show how global and instant zeitgeist is.

I am a dad with 2 little boys and I am doing everything in my power to prevent them from seeing manosphere nonsense.   It truly disturbs me what the messages from these people are.  If they do see it then I will fight it by debunking their absurd conclusions about masculinity.

That s exactly what my husband told me as well. He saw a few videos of Andrew Tate and his gang and he was immediately thinking that they were completely faking it for the money. He didn’t blv that young ppl would fall for it, until I showed him the number of followers etc they have

I think the only reason why I didn't fall down the misogynistic hole given by this type of content was that I had female friends, tutors, and mentors in high school and college that made it impossible for me to believe anything from these type of men. I have had my fair share of issues about finances, finding a partner, purpose, but I never attributed fault towards women.

"The Estranged Mom Situation Is Crazy"

If we go with their silly Matrix analogies, they're a lot closer to the character of Cypher than Neo

You said one thing that I actually never considered: that some men really want this tough love attitude, and don't respond to the typical softer aprroach in therapy.

I know I was really emotionally closed off when I was younger, and therapy was really difficult when I started. It felt very woo woo, and woe is me at the time, and I quit a few times because it all felt way too emotionally open and scared me off.

Then I found a therapist who didn't stop me to urge me to find empathy for my hardships, or to stop and say kind words to my inner child. She just listened, asked follow up questions, and approached it in more of a logical way, like "do you really think its reasonable to hate yourself over something so minor? You wouldn't be that harsh on a stranger."

Conversations flowed more when it felt like I was venting to a friend, rather than sitting across from someone giving me sad eyes and radical empathy. Once I got over my hang ups, things are a lot easier now with the softer approach in therapy, but I wonder if the same would go for most men? A sort of easing in to emotional vulnerability so that they aren't scared off like I was?

As a man.. the manosphere is a sad sad place

I grew up in a humble environment. My father was sometimes violent, and so was my mother from all the stress she endured, etc.

I worked very hard, yet I wasn't great at school, decent but not great. At one stage, I got depressed and migrated to the UK (~16yo). Since I didn't speak English at the time, I did an ESOL course part-time and worked in the kitchens and sometimes even did cleaning jobs. It was rough.

During this time, I never aspired to be like these guys; rather, I wanted to be a decent guy who could do something in science, and eventually, I left a small mark. Never wanted to show off or drive a luxury car (I honestly never cared about these things, and I did drive in some). Perhaps I am only longing to have a tiny house somewhere with dark skies.

I knew that the poor wouldn't have anything to take to the other side, and the super wealthy couldn't either.

I suspect many of these young people have a very naive worldview and are shallow. Financial stability is important, I get that, like wellbeing, but living a hustle life like these influencers? The way they treat other people? To me, it is a nightmare, and I would never want to walk that path. Even when I was young, desperate and starved, I distanced myself from such people.

I agree.  One  of the things that had struck me recently is the framing around role models. That men need a role model to show them how to be a good man. But shouldn't the bigger emphasis be on how  to be a good person? I, (woman) myself view Fred Rogers as an excellent role model. But when I'm looking for role models I'm not looking for how to perform my gender. I'm looking to be a good person. It also seems like a framing that easily leads to the idea that emphasizes the man rather than the good and  quickly leads to a place with an ever shrinking box that defines a man.