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Paul Carter & Kassem Debate Traps and Shrugs back in 2022.

N1 Education And Training Founded by Kassem Hanson

7,405 views

Please let me know in the comments who if anyone actually won the debate and be sure to share it with all the Paul Carter followers you know.

I decided to post this video after all this time because apparently this conversation is being portrayed as an "owning", not only by Paul but apparently followers of his like the "scientific" snitch are repeating these false claims to avoid having to defend their own content and positions. So as much as it will tank in the algorithm, here it is. Remember, if they get upset, they asked for it.

Most of you will realize why I didn't think it was a valuable addition to our content given the amount of interrupting, yelling over, and the fact that Paul was not referencing the actual study, but rather a blog, so I was debating Paul's interpretation of someone else's interpretation of the study. Admittedly during the debate I was quite distracted by the fact that Paul was reading quotes that I could not recall or find in the study in real time, and it wasn't until after the fact that I found out it's because the quotes were not from the study. This resulted in me not being able to cover most of what I wanted to discuss and a lot of talking in circles, but I'll take responsibility for not being able to manage the discussion better regardless.

Everything after the
00:02:40 mark is the full unedited conversation. The first hour is me just letting Paul state his position.
01:12:10 is where I actually start presenting my counter arguments.
02:03:00 End of me making my points, Pauls patience is clearly thin so I eventually try to pivot to exercise selection.

The article Paul was reading from can be found here:
https://www.physiotutors.com/the-uppe...

The study in question "Anatomy and actions of the trapezius muscle" pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23916077/ is not available in full online but you can post the title or URL into sci-hub.se and download a copy of the PDF.

I will link the instagram videos that go along with this debate as well, that cover a less chaotic review of the research.

The video that kicked it off
Instagram: CiBmwzms-Y2

My responses
https://www.instagram.com/coach_kasse...
https://www.instagram.com/coach_kasse...
https://www.instagram.com/coach_kasse...
Instagram: CljWp8nJSMH
https://www.instagram.com/coach_kasse...

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20 Comments

@nathanbeckett7504 1 year ago Pinned

K: “So with the Castellan study what you’re saying is there’s no upper trap…like they did no upper trap res-“
C: “I didn’t-I didn’t, no that’s strawmanning. I didn’t say there’s no upper trap I said they measured at C7 which is mid traps”
K: “so let me ask you then, did they measure upper traps in that study?”
C: “no their…their placement is c7.”
K: “ok so…so then can we say they didn’t measure the upper traps in the Castellan study?”
C: “Right they didn’t measure the upper traps.”

may have just been a misunderstanding but hard to watch that exchange haha

@ProphetFear 1 year ago

So the scientific snitch took Paul's claim at face value with no citation or sources or corroboration. Sounds like a common trend among these science communicators.

@TEERIO96 1 year ago

Scientific Snitch basically wants to be Paulina Carter.

About halfway through and not quite the riveting debate Paul hyped it up to be. Not sure how he arrived at “I owned Kassem”.

@ThierryBeauvaisGentile 1 year ago

The most striking thing here is the anti-social behaviour of Paul and SN (I guess her name is Ella?). Sure, the subjects of the debates are somewhat interesting but the content never comes close to justifying the way these people behave online like: Paul blocking everyone, talking shit, ridiculing newbies for "not knowing" things he's barely able to make a case for in almost 3 hours. Ella confidently discarding entire portions of the fitness industry because she skims over Chris and Paul's citations. It's crazy on a social level even when/if there are merits to their technical arguments.

@dakkitoto 1 year ago (edited)

The crazy thing is on Pauls youtube way back he said vertical shrugs 4x12 with 3 second holds at the top helped a TON with his traps.

@N1education Creator 1 year ago

FYI fine wire EMG still only measure excitation, and not real "activation" meaning it shares the same limitation in terms of not being a direct measure of muscle contraction, the same as sEMG.

Also crosstalk of elevator and the upper trap is extremely unlikely unless the sensors are placed directly over the levator in a person with small traps. The studies that go half the distance from the spine to the acromion would be unlikely to have interference from the elevator, and the testing we did in house similarly was lateral enough to limit any of this "crosstalk".

For context, a lot of the evidence for crosstalk is based on measuring small muscles in the foot.

@lightningarrow4486 1 year ago

I watched the whole thing. You where right, it was really hard to watch. A big part of this stemmed from you not having established a firm, common definition of the different divisions of the trapezius. Although you kinda did flesh it out at the start, there where countless times where language stoped the conversation from advancing. It may have been better if you had decided to just use completely different terms and avoid the terms “upper traps” and “mid traps” altogether.

In regards to behaviour, I think you personally did well. Considering the circumstances, you showed more grace than one could have asked of you. And your willingness to try to build bridges shined through. Carter seemed distressed and thus defensive, in his combative way. Eventually you guys managed to end on a good note and redemption actually seemed possible. But considering how things have transpired ever since, it is actually a sad conclusion to the conversation. Hopefully, things will turn around one day.

@CJ-nm8sw 1 year ago (edited)

I'm indifferent to his lackeys like Scientific Snitch but Paul is insufferable and is clearly a narcissist. Dude is only civil when he's face to face with someone.

@corneliusparkin2401 1 year ago

This was such a relaxed, chill, non combative conversation! I loved it!

@adamreeder5786 1 year ago

Of course this is a win for Kassem. Paul's thinly veiled personal grudge against N1 is obvious from the get go as he attempts to sound more sciency.

@snowiblind 1 year ago

levator scapulae saga never ends

@erickaraujo2810 1 year ago

Really enjoyed this debate. I actually see your point that the pivot around the sternoclavicular joint is what's causing that movement in the upper traps. Makes sense, just like the forces in the brachioradialis are being applied to the elbow joint to flex the elbow, lifting the forearm. Like you said it's pulling transversly which makes it seem as it is pulling upward.

@pratideep- 1 year ago

- *No Single Definitive Conclusion:* The debate did not result in a unanimous final verdict, but highlighted several agreed-upon points and remaining areas of contention.
- *Combined Muscle Involvement:* Both participants agree that shrugs engage a combination of muscles—including the levator scapulae, upper traps, and mid traps—and that these muscles work together rather than in isolation.
- *Exercise Variation Matters:* They concur that different shrug variations (e.g., a standard shrug versus a “Kelo shrug”) alter muscle recruitment, with posture adjustments influencing whether the upper traps or mid traps are emphasized.
- *Limitations of EMG Studies:* There is mutual acknowledgment that EMG data, while useful, has inherent limitations (like cross-talk) that make isolating deep versus superficial muscle activity challenging.
- *Implication for Training:* The key takeaway is that optimizing trap development likely depends on using specific exercise techniques and posture modifications rather than relying solely on one exercise modality for hypertrophy.

@notacrew69 1 year ago

finally its out!!

@Azim-BB 1 year ago

We're back!!!

@developpement6992 1 year ago

2:20:30 Please. For that levator exercice, if someone decide to do it on a slight angled smith machine would it be behind the back? And which side facing? 🙏🙏🙏

@ThePhysiqueTracker 1 year ago

Paul is such an unlikeable character. Props to you.

@spurzo-thespiralspacewolf8916 1 year ago

I have a pinched nervy in the C-6 vertebrae and I noticed when I do vertical shrugs it seems to irritate and I get bad hand numbness and upper traps get really tight, but when I do Kelsi shrug it doesyseem to irritate the C-6 nerve. Does that make any sense?