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1504: Dallin H. Oaks Reverses Course on LGBTQ at The University of Virginia?

Mormon Stories Podcast

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Join us this Wednesday at 9:45 a.m as we discuss Elder Dallin H. Oaks' shocking remarks at The University of Virginia regarding religious freedom to what he called “the most difficult address [he has] ever undertaken”.

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Timecodes:
00:00:00 Introduction and opening remarks
00:10:52 Hunter v. US Dept of Education challenges religious exemptions to Title IX
00:13:56 Elder Dallin H. Oaks’ long and terrible history on LGBTQ issues
00:52:55 Schools with a religious exemption create vague rules that foster discrimination
01:13:26 Leaked statement by Oaks saying it would be "desirable to exclude homosexuals from influential positions in society"
01:20:00 Oaks' First Lie: Electroshock and vomiting aversion were not used at BYU while he was president
02:06:01 The Church might prefer to get this issue resolved by Congress than have it heard in the courts
02:37:31 Oaks says five times that "we should avoid conflict with ideological groups,” yet Oaks himself has led that conflict
02:54:09 Oaks' Second Lie: That the Church accepted the Supreme Court’s decision on marriage equality
03:06:25 As president of BYU in 1974, Oaks said there should be criminal penalties for adultery, premarital sex, and homosexuality
03:09:48 Oaks' Third Lie: That the Church was a "leader" in the 2015 "Utah Compromise" (state legislation that provided some anti-discrimination protections in exchange for very broad religious exemptions); in reality, the Church fought the Utah bill
03:34:36 The current "Fairness For All" bill would extend Utah's religious exemptions nationwide
03:39:16 Closing remarks

Show Notes:
"Going Forward with Religious Freedom and Nondiscrimination," address by Dallin Oaks at the University of Virginia on November 12, 2021
2021 Joseph Smith Lecture: Dallin H. Oaks

Q&A session with Dallin Oaks prior to the UVA address
Dallin H. Oaks | University of Virginia Q&...

Mormon Stories interview with Hannah Comeau
https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast...

Hunter et. al. v. the United States Department of Education
https://casetext.com/case/hunter-v-us...

The Religious Exemption Accountability Project
https://www.thereap.org/

"School of Law event with Dallin Oaks draws protest from Lambda Law Alliance," by Merrill Hart, The Cavalier Daily, November 16, 2021
https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article...

"On The Record: A Chronology of LGBTQ+ Messaging," by Latter Gay Stories
https://lattergaystories.org/wp-conte...

Mormon Stories interviews with Greg Prince
https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast...

Statement by Dallin Oaks on August 7, 1984
http://traffic.libsyn.com/mormonstori...

"Dallin Oaks says shock therapy of gays didn't happen at BYU while he was president. Records show otherwise," by Peggy Fletcher Stack, Salt Lake Tribune, November 16, 2021
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/...

Church statement denouncing conversion therapy
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist....

Screenshots of the 2012 Church website "Mormon and Gay":
https://wset.com/resources/media/66b3...
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/JcyCo...
In 2016, the name, tone, and content of the website were changed:
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/t...

"The Popular Myth of the Victimless Crime," by Dallin H. Oaks, Brigham Young University Press, 1974
https://archive.org/details/Oaks_Crim...

Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences by Gregory A. Prince
https://www.amazon.com/Gay-Rights-Mor...

"Utah 'Compromise' to protect LGBT citizens from discrimination is no model for the nation," by Nelson Tebbe, Richard C. Schragger, and Micah Schwartzman, Slate, March 18, 2015
https://slate.com/human-interest/2015...

"Latter-day Saint leaders join other faith groups sharing support for Stewart's LGBTQ rights bill," by Kelsey Dallas, Deseret News, February 26, 2021
https://www.deseret.com/indepth/2021/...

#LDS #Mormon #LGBTQ #PostMormon

20 Comments

@caseyjude5472 4 years ago

Thank you, UVA Lambda Law Alliance, for not allowing his appearance to go unexamined & unchallenged. The youth of today gives me hope. I look forward to the world you all are building, despite that I won’t see much of it.
I really enjoy panel discussions. I deeply value hearing thoughts & perspectives from people I will likely never get to meet or talk with IRL. Yay for the tech, and BIG thanks to Gerardo for arranging it.

@iamjustsaying1 4 years ago

This whole panel was fantastic. But Gerardo, when you spoke at the end, with so much heart, the pain was palpable. Everyone who doesn't "get it" yet, needs to see/hear the real human price that's being paid for toxic church teachings.

@theponderingplumb9790 4 years ago

Thanks to everyone on the panel, PARTICULARLY Hannah and Chloe for making the time during this busy moment in their education to contribute to this discourse.

@torrenceire 4 years ago

As a resident Nevermo, I love that John stops to explain fascinating context that helps the story ! Thank you!

@oliviaproctor3375 4 years ago

Did Oaks really think he was going to get away with his answer about electroshock therapy???

@oliviaproctor3375 4 years ago

Thanks Hannah and Chloe for taking time out of your busy schedule to discuss this! Thanks to the others too. Love your work John!

@VenusDescending 4 years ago

Anyone or organization that would go to such lengths to make someone’s life a living hell is indisputably evil.

@ritamorgan2994 4 years ago

Brava!! To you all. Thank you for taking the pain and loneliness and turning into a force for good and fairness. I'm so impressed with your dedication to the truth!!

@wellsaidgoodheadfred9843 4 years ago

If anyone should be excluded from positions of influence, it ought to be Dallin H Oaks.

@bdshafer 4 years ago

The Church should be called by its official name, The Corporation.

@boydx4687 4 years ago (edited)

Before listening, thanks John for another episode of this fine series. I've recently been listening to your early episodes with Richard Bushman and want to thank you for how well done they were, as well as for Dr. Bushman's braving his sore throat and sharing his views. John's opening statement here is an example of how easy it is to mishear other people (was it Oaks's most difficult or most important talk?) , and I appreciate how quickly John recognized and corrected his error. Thanks for a fine example of humility. Now on with the show.

@mariannepolkowski-burns2627 4 years ago

I have been enlightened. Thank you. I will donate in gratitude. Never Mormon but was in a faith with many rules on sexual matters. Love you all.

@kimsteinke713 4 years ago

Thank you John for keeping the bishops and pastors in all the churches in all the regions accountable they follow the Mormon leaders that's why we've got this mess but thank you and I'm going to give next time when the market is better kind of lost a lot today keep up the good work I'm praying for y'all everyday. 👍😇🙏🌈

@joannajenkins7731 4 years ago

This episode has been so amazing. So eye opening. So important. This is such important work. This panel was perfect. Thank you.

@gtodan1966 4 years ago

What an incredibly important panel discussion in response to a 2-faced speech by a "prophet, seer, and revelator." Also to end with such an emotional statement from Gerardo makes this an episode among the most important ever done. We loved everything about this discussion and loved the work and testimony of each panel member and of Dr. John's as the episode progressed. Thank you all! I do have a critism/question. I again heard a claim that I have not personally been able to verify---that the suicide rate among the youth in Utah is 3X the national average. Could you please always add a source for claims like this as it would give much more legitimacy to what is being said help us in the community to have something to back what we may discuss with others in Utah. Thank you again!

@JP-JustSayin 4 years ago

History of the "Utah Compromise"

LGBTQ+ activists: Hey legislature, wanna protect our rights?

Utah legislature: Heck yeah! Lets get that done.

LDS Church: Not so fast guys. Let's compromise.

@chubbuck35 4 years ago

Gerardo’s hair is 10/10

@kimsteinke713 4 years ago

I love y'all's talks I can watch them all day long I have to cuz they're so long 😀 I love John I'm with John all the way and his impersonation of Elder oaks I was in the bathtub and I started laughing John that was spot on you sounded just like him amazing y'all keep up the good work I'm praying for you. And everybody that can afford to give please give and help John his work tirelessly for 10 years or longer dedicated his life to correcting these pastors and really paving the way for peace blessed are the peacekeepers for they shall have it I think it is I can't remember there should be peace one day in the valley. Kim in Texas again. 👍🌈😇🙏

@daniellecalder5193 4 years ago

I am a fan of this podcast AND I would love love love it if they were like under a hour. These are so dang long!

@scottbrandon6244 4 years ago

The brethren will have to figure out soon how to deal with this issue and others facing the church. I have friends in various countries that are telling me accounts of their wards and stakes losing active members in high numbers. The church always goes on about their membership number for each country, but the real issue is activity rates. Some wards have 10-20% activity rate. There is also a poor rate of retention of new converts. People are leaving not just for the LGBTQ issue, but the role of women in the church, church history, church doctrine, social and political reasons, feeling bored, burnt out with callings and other reasons.