Pretty much everyone here in AU was mad when we learned ARM has refused every time our request for an led. For $300aud, it's ridiculous to not even get that vs all the other shortcomings. Also we are kinda out of luck for loco's. $500+ is the norm, so anything 'budget' is rare.

I work for Hobbyco, the Australian retailer that was shown at the start of the video, so I thought I’d give a quick rundown on what it’s like to live with these guys. We’ve had the 3803s discounted at $249.99 (£132.75) for a good long while now, which based on your British standards is still too much. With our unfortunate Aussie price/quality ratio, as you’ve heard from a few people now, $250-300 is roundabout right for us. For comparison we’re currently retailing the Hornby Railroad P2 Cock O’ The North (R3171) at $264.99 (£140.70), which I’d say is more of an equivalent comparison to the 38 (flat finish, no sprung buffers, lack of cab detail, no tender pickups, etc.). We retail the A1 Doncaster loco shown in the running session at $424.99 (£225.99). If we had the 38 at that price they’d most likely be thrown back through our windows like bricks, and rightly so.

In terms of customer reaction we’ve had to the ARM range, I’d say it’s improved over the span of the last 3 or so years since we first started getting them in. The first 3 ARM locos, 3806, 3803 and especially 3820 had big quality control problems. Most of the separately fitted parts were extremely delicate, and having to handle them to put them out on display was a nightmare. Good number of instances where they’ve been damaged on arrival to our shop/the customers home inside the styrofoam packaging, meaning we’ve subsequently had to refund/replace the model. Their newer 38s, 3801 and 3830, have fared far better quality wise, I’ve personally not had one brought back in a similar manner. I have a few regulars who have bought the ARM range and quality/performance wise I’ve not heard many complaints if any, but that could potentially be them being polite/starved of better quality models for comparison. The lack of lights and the fixed tender bogeys remain a contentious issue, turning a good amount of people away from them.

ARMs most recent model, the D55, does fix a few of the things wrong with the 38, mainly the finish is much nicer and they’ve added swivelling bogies on the tender (still no pickups). Unsurprisingly it doesn’t include the headlamp that most D55 locomotives had in their working lives, which is most likely ARMs way of dodging the noise caused by lack of lighting. It’s certainly a step in the right direction for sure, but still not a big enough step to justify the price just yet, given it retails the same as the 38s at $299.99.

Overall my summation would be that this is our equivalent of a Hornby Railroad model, and I’ll only ever describe it as such to any customers enquiring about it. For our Aussie standards we’ve just about priced it like one but in the UK it’s enormously overpriced, that Hattons price is absolutely ludicrous. Ideally I’d love to have them at that £100-110 range, since I’d probably mark this model close to most Railroad models such as the P2 in terms of features/quality (although I’ve not lived with the P2, just went back to your videos about it, the Railways vs Railroad range video and the more recent New Build P2 review), but sadly that’s just not the situation here.

We do fiercely love the real C38 locomotives in Australia, particularly here in New South Wales, so it’s a bit gutting to see you tear our poor child to shreds, but completely justified at your price point. Love your reviews, and Merry Christmas/Happy New Year 👍

Hey Sam. I actually work for an Australian model train retailer (Branchline, based in Victoria. We are a family owned business) so I feel I can offer a little perspective on a couple of things.

Regarding price, this has often been a sticking point of our industry. We simply have a much smaller population and market than the UK, and as such production runs are much smaller. Since working at our shop I think the prices have tended to average around 1.5-2x that of the equivelant UK models (which sells just about as well as our Australian ranges). Covid has done a lot to equalize things, but who knows how long that will last. Not saying that makes it ok, just providing context.

If you'd like to investigate any more Australian locos in the future, I can certainly recommend the models produced by Auscision. While every brand produces the odd lemon, I quite like them from an overall quality and detail standpoint, especially their deisels. While I don't tear down trains and analyse them to the extent you do, simply based on the breif testing we do in store and rate of returns I can give these a thumbs up.

Sorry to see your first forray into Aussie models was a bit of a dud. But there's some good stuff out there if you do a bit of digging around.

As always, great video. :)

Sam, this model came out some time ago in Australia. I think the appeal of this model in Australia was that the 3801 version of this real locomotive is an Icon of steam in Australia, similar to the Flying Scotsman in the UK. There has always been a call for a model of this Locomotive. Still, until now, the 38 Class has attracted a price of $1000 from other model manufacturers, so I think that Lima\Hornby (ARM} saw a potential income stream from this Australian Model train. We all know here in Western Australia that Horny manufactured its companion coaches (These are now as scarce as Rocking Horse Poo), but I managed to get four at a discount price of $35 each secondhand at our annual Train Show in June. Most Australians run HO, not OO. However, I did purchase the 3801 version of this Locomotive when it first came out, but it was a similar experience to yours. Still, I persevered with it—fitting a 3mm LED in the headlight and fibre optic light to the marker lights at the front of the Loco along with pickups in the tender and fixing the tender permanently to the Loco.
Then, I fitted an ESU sound Chip in the Locomotive body (This was a Blo***!! Pain), but it sounds OK now. All that was left was the Coal in the tender that appeared like Black Vomit. So, this was changed for real coal.
Unfortunately, this added $238 to the price of the already expensive Loco, but it's still cheaper than the $1000 required from other Australian manufacturers. Best Regards, Bill from W/Australia. All the Best for Christmas and the New Year.

The reason it looks small is that it is HO not 00
If you see 3801 next to Flying Scotsman when it was in Aud in the 1980s you realise howx big C38s are due to the bigger loading gauge

One of the problems I feel regarding price and quality is the extremely small market that Australian models have compared to Hornby.

I agree with everything you’ve pointed out however in Australia this is considered a budget model, I know people who’ve owned them and been quite happy with it seeing as though any other really nice high quality Aussie steam loco models are upwards of $600aud. I also agree compared to UK models of the same price it seems like a rip off but for us in Australia it’s quite revolutionary to have a new release steam loco this cheap.

It's currently on the Game website described as a' Lima ARM' product at £105.98, 'was £132.98'...

Some Australian context is probably required here. The ARM C38’s (there’s a few now in different numbers and liveries) is meant to bridge the gap between 1970’s Lima C38’s selling for $300AUD+ on eBay and the Eureka Models C38’s ($640AUD+).

Prior to the ARM release in 2020, if you wanted to model the NSWGR, you had two options: very old second-hand models selling ABOVE their new prices, or dropping almost 700$ for a Eureka C38. The ARM release did two things: it dropped the price of Lima C38’s down on eBay, and provided an option that wasn’t the better part of a thousand dollars for a loco.

That being said, it has the flaws Sam highlighted here, and it’s still pricey for what you get. But it has made an impact on the Australian modelling landscape, and provided modellers with something they didn’t have before: an option.

I’ll also add the 1990’s C38 you mention are extremely rare, and can only really be found on eBay or the secondhand market. You could spend all year waiting for an update Streamlined Lima C38 and you might end up paying the same as the brand new ARM (~$299AUD).

Because the Australian market is quite small, manufacturers tend to charge way more for each model as they have to recover tooling costs from smaller volumes.
This particular model would compare to a Hornby Railroad class model, although it's basically very old tooling. The C38 sells for about A$290 here.
More detailed locos can range around A$400-650. I'm trying to get an Ixion J515 J class loco which costs A$599.99 maybe you should get one 😊
Nice to see an Aussie loco running around your track regardless.

Sam, a few points. This loco is HO and was for the Aussie market and, at $299, comes in at well less than half the cost of its nearest competitor. Eureka models will have a rerun of their 38 class, and it will be 3 times the price. I have added DCC to mine, and it runs well even at low speed. Yes, it could be better, but it's built to a price we have not seen locally for many years. I have 12 38 class locos ranging from this one to brass PSM models worth $3,000. It's not too bad for what it is. With some detailing and a bogie kit (S55) from Ctrlp models, it's pretty good.

Hornby locos are what counts for budget here in AUS. Our homegrown manufacturers have been trying to make cool stuff. But it costs a lot to get them shipped back from the factories in China and tool them in the first place. SDS models and Auscision models are two of the biggest and I recommend some of their diesels over this, but you still won't like the price.

The state of HO/OO gauge model locos is apalling lately. this model has quality and designs on par with what hornby produced nearly 20 years ago but for double the price. even a "budget" range model like Hornby Railroad will set you back at least £110 for a Loco and Tender. Shocking. (great review though, I envy your patience and self control sam xD)

Everyone and their mother is pointing out that railway models are expensive in Australia and rightly so, but it also goes the other way too, in Japan. They do N-scale instead, but for example the Kato C62 (large, late era, steam express loco) costs the equivalent of just 60 GBP. If you buy from a local retailer outside of Japan however this will likely more than double, and you're experiencing a similar issue of buying foreign models here with the C38.

Hello Sam,
I agree with you about this model, however it is the cheapest steam H0 locomotive in Australia by a large amount. It is not the old Lima body tooling. The Lima body tooling was more accurate and has sharper detail. The rest of the old Lima model was bits from European models made by Lima. Eureka Models will be producing a rerun of their NSW 38 soon and it will cost more  and will have a working headlight and a DCC sound option.

How did this get reviewed but not the Coca Cola tram? Will we be seeing that this year? I'm waiting patiently for it. :)

Sam. If you are able to get an Auscision Victorian Railways B class then it may be interesting to compare it with your Triang Railways blue and gold R.159 doubled ended diesel to show how much progress in acurracy and quality has been made. Even though the Triang model was released in 1958, it had working headlights and lit cabs at both ends. Pat Hamminds books records only a handful of locomotives outsold it. Americans are amazed to see a double ended F7 running on six wheel all powered bogies.
A class introduced in 1953 and a few still running on mainlines. Are there any mainline diesels that can match that?

In my hometown of Brisbane Australia the average price of the model is about $300 Australian

Got one of these myself at the beginning of the year (tho it’s the 3801 version), can’t say I’ve experienced any of these issues myself, crawls fine, no problems with glue marks, runs great, paint is fine, yeah the lamp doesn’t work, though some people like to point out that nswgr locomotives rarely ran with their lamps on as a justification, though it’s probably because this is a budget model.

Interesting video Sam; ARM are a subsidiary of Southern Model Supplies who import Hornby products into Australia, (no relation to Lima),so presumably they use the same Chinese factory as Hornby. The lack of features were to keep the price down to A$300 which is a "budget" price for a steam outline model loco in Australia.

Be interesting to compare an Aucision XPT against a modern British HST (and even the old Hornby export XPT!) but 1400AUD for the 7 car XPT set might blow the whole 2024 budget.....