I think MoM doesnt get the Bile buff, because he explicitly affects bodyguard models and MoM are considered support, i could be wrong though

I especially now like a 10 man term brick with a sorc in cabal of chaos. The detachment takes them them to S6 on their bolters and with the sorcs ability for +1 ap means they can be massed 6 -2 1. Plus the reroll hits with the option for lethals and wounding even t11 on 5s means they can take a chunk out of most things in the game. I took Warpstrike + Cabal to a GT and thought it was very interesting.

It just feels weird like everything got a T upgrade but weapons didn’t really. Chosen wounding on 4’s now just feels bad for a unit that costs 280 points and to make them wound on 3’s, like before, you need to put Fabius with them. Legionaries need a seperate datesheet like SM assault and normal intercessors, cause even though they’re better, why take bolters on legionaries when their only ability doesn’t cater for it. Las, flamers, meltas all have the same profiles as before. Csm is just unanimously worse across the board imo

a very haphazard "update" to the armies of chaos thats more of a detriment than a boon, especially with all the power armor thats going to be running around. heres hoping they give the weapons another pass over- plus our vehicles are in a very awkward place.

I've played a few games now with the new csm changes with a few different lists and bar far the best results I've had had been when leaning into the new tanky statline. 2 bricks of 10 man termies one with sorc one with lord. Marines, Chosen, Havocs, Raptors, Kravek, Lord disco, cultists and a rhino. Surprising how many armies just couldn't chew through the sheer amount of T5 and T6 bodies and the cultists just hugged cover and took objectives for me.

Now, the important part is that my local play group has 4 marine players and 6 xenos players and the xenos games were night and day different. The marine games felt more like a slugging match where things just didn't die for me or them. With good play, wins are absolutely do able but I had way more success building for tankiness than flexibility

I was really hoping more than anything that the krak missiles would go to S10 because I love missile havocs, but I now see no reason to take them over anything

Dark Pact is key, Helbrute's 6" aura just became way more interesting.

Not played enough 10th, and not played any 11th yet(working on it!) and a lot of this goes over my head. However the point changes have shaken up my lists a bit so this is a good reference to know what to keep or switch out.

Great video as always. My general thought is slightly nerfed. A more concise take is we are far more matchuo dependent. Lots of YouTube, reddit, discord and just my own thoughts are as follows.

Terminators are the stand out buffed datasheet. The certainly lost on the melle front but id say the ranged buffs more than make up for it.

Bikers are worth the point increase. Its not all buffs but id say the positive outweighs the negatives.

Vehicles in general. I think the predators and the vindicator should have dropped a extra 5. 2 dataslates ago they went up 5 for no reason i can discern so im glad they went down but i dont think they should have been at the price points they were at overall.

Dispositions on creations and RR. Ill say right now im not a fan of creations as tah. But ive not ignored peoples points on it. Just my thoughts but i feel about it much like i did with so many players taking purge when the edition changrf over. Is it really the best use? I think it just plays purge far better but tah is really strong and i may well be wrong.

Legionaries. 2 powerfists and the plasma pistol got worse but 2 chain swords 3 bolt pistals and the toughness increase imo is worth the points.

Cypher going up by 5 for +1t imo is well worth it. Hes lone op and has to get in 12 to vex so any extra survivability is really good. Im a little sad his bolt pistol only got +1s and not the extra ap as well.

Not csm per say but khorne berserkers. Im quite interested in seeing if they might not be worth a look in creations. 20 man block with 16chain swordsat str 7 on the charge with +1 str buff seems very good to me.

Creations of bile in general. It got accsess to arguably the best disposition no matter my feelings on it here. It was doing well and just got better imo.

Cabal of chaos. It was already our best 1 pointer mostly due to stratagems. The str buff was meh as bolters just weren't good. Now going up to str 6 on terminators with a sorcerer in terminator armor leading is so good. I also dont think legionaries packages with a sorcerer are insane. 245 for 10 and the leader you now end up with 6-8 bolters at str 6 the lascannon goes up to str 13 and i havnt looked into the other special weapons yet. I still like 2 powerfists to give it some hybrid damage but i can see a player just going all ranged as well.

Guardsmen.  Worth it  by far.

For nerfs. Havocs are imo the most nerfed unit out if everything. A predator annihlator is 5 points more and is imo the superior package overall. 135 for it is just insane.

Raptors are a unit that got worse. A major selling point was it having so many special weapons. 3 powerfists 3 plasma pistols and the melta  are str 8 or str 9 (plasma pistol overcharged) are just worse. Compared to legionaries thats 1 more powerfist 2 more plasma pistols and the lascannon which is str 12 and foesnt really get effected trades for that melta. Beyond this its role was fast reliable damage into such a wide variety of targets. Is it even worth the 110 it was at let alone the 115 it is now? Im personally not sold. I dont think its unplayable but its certainly overcosted.

Characters in general are imo ive overpriced. This is now exasperated even further. Its easier to list those i think could be nerfed as its a much smaller list. Cypher, chaos lord in terminator armor, sorcerer lord in terminator armor, sorcerer, and bile. Terminators in general are just far better and if your taking 2 squads slotting in a lord might be worth it. If your taking 3 id certainly slot him in. Sorcerers are great but obky 1 being able to use the ap buff just makes the second a choice and imo a 3rd dumb. Sorcerer is imo underrated and undercosted. He just got nerfs as you do t use the bolt gun vs hus psychic attack and he has a unit so the toughness change means little here. But hes still only 65 amd a steal. Cypher getting the toughness is great for the reason stated in the buffs area. Bile gained nothing but is the way to go with chosen now imo. Outside these nothing else should have went up as they were to expensive for what they gave already let alone the price increase.

Obliterators str values just arnt as good now. His multi profiles took hits that im not sure he could take at the price point he was at already.

Chosen. Im not sold on them at the new price point. I dont hate them and will still take them but i do feel they are certainly overpriced now. I will say the +1 t is wortha bit more here then most places. Oath being gone means space marines no longer have full rerolls and codex compliant lost the +1 to wound. Big bricks like these and terminators are slightly more durable vs some of the soace marines then the toughness change alone shows.

MOM got worse just due to chosen being worse imo. Thank god they dont have to have huron anymore or id question thier playability.

Pbz and hurons detachments getting disruption. Hurons already had it and we know it sucks and pbz doesnt in any way look like it can llay it well.

Overwatch. Nuff said.

Possessed. Again i dont hate it but overcosted.

Forgefiend. Bad str characteristics now. Im just not feeling it.

Warp talons. Ni way should they have went up. The extra toughness may save a wound on overwatch from time to time but the massive loss into MEQ cant be understated.

Edit forgot the nerf to noise marines. 160 is brutal for rr nh and dt. But thier or im guessing were used ina bunch of detachments as well.

Issue is a lot of our units and characters are redundant due to overlapping roles, mono build abilities or abilities that just dont really do anything.

The lords all sharing a once per turn ability just sucks, plus the term & jump lord post SM update arent even capable of doing damage.

Warp talons too, pts increase and even weaker output.

Played a lot of CSM and did well at LGT with renegade raiders, honestly we were in a nice solid spot before. This is really a nerf for us in my opinion, just pushes us down the power ranking a bit, especially since space marines have become so much more consistent

I fee like CSM are now in the state Eldar were at the start of the edition. Too elite and too fragile for their points. I’m pivoting to World Eaters until the next codex.

I don't know, have you played with this dataslate yet ? I've felt like it shores up some of our weaknesses, I actually feel like we've improved more than marines have.

We got away with murder with how little the points increases were.

I'm happy with where we are now and can't wait to see where the codex takes us

exalted weapon, which ~80% of elite unite use (chosen, talon, termi), still keep 5 2 1 profile is one of the most ridiculous thing this update. It's make chosen who already weak, even harder to kill normal marine (from 3+ to wound to 4+ to wound).

btw, biker still T5 :face-red-droopy-eyes:

I like the stat changes, they are nice, played a few games and its not too OP but deffo helps. No crits on overwatch....now thats a different story! talk about crippling a faction that was already not performing very well. its so weird not to dark pact on overwatch now. i used to rely a lot on overwatch with a helbrute nearby. i feel we need a big points reduction on a lot of units now seeing as a lot of our damage came from the crits on overwatch.

rip my NL list :(

Yeah when I heard we were going to T5 I was thinking well does that mean my raptors HMWs no longer wound on twos and my warp talons are gonna be wounding on 4s? Feels bad man. I never cared about my guys being T5. I just wanna kill stuff

Just letting you know the possessed have gone to T6 if you look in the app they are S6 T6

Chaos Lord should cost less than the Lord in Terminator Armour, that's just dumb. And they upgraded all our Bolters but not the Heavy Bolter, SM get rapid fire 2 version, why not CSM too?