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Gil-galad and the Question of Canon?

Tolkien Untangled

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Who is Gil-galad? What colour is his hair? What counts as canon?

0:00 - A Tale of 3 Gil-galads
4:11 - Gil-galad the Dark - Team Fingon
20:48 - Gil-galad the Golden - Team Orodreth
33:40 - Gil-galad the Silver - Mystery of Starlight
42:01 - What Counts as Canon?
50:11 - The Evolution of Middle-earth
1:03:39 - What Makes Tolkien Unique?

#Lordoftherings
#Lore
#Tolkien
#middleearth

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20 Comments

@tolkienuntangled Creator 3 years ago (edited) Pinned

CORRECTION - At 06:22, I say there's no version of events where Gil-galad is descended from Fëanor. That's not true. In the second draft of The Fall of Númenor (c. 1937, so pre-Lord of the Rings), we're told that Gil-galad is "descended from Fëanor". No specific parentage is given, but, Gil-galad was somehow of Fëanor's House in his earliest appearance.

By both the final intent principle and the pinnacle principle, this would not meet any definition of "canon". But it is interesting. At different points in his life, Tolkien considered Gil-galad a descendant of all three Houses of the Noldor.

Thanks to @Tar-Elenion Maranwe for immediately pointing this out.

@JamieHitt 3 years ago

I will go to Heaven with 750 questions. 50 for God. And 700 for Tolkien.

@amansanchez7862 3 years ago (edited)

Hear me out, what if: Gil Galad is Fingon's son sent to safety (because of a vision of his role in 2nd age) with Cirdan. At the end of the first age, Cirdan, in his wisdom decides (to avoid the fixation of evil with Fingolfin's dynasty and Sauron's spies) to have him publicly known as a son of Orodreth. All eased because of: his Sindarin silver hair. Cirdan is doing everything fulfilling an oath to keep him safe.

@friendshipiswiccabane 3 years ago

Tolkien Untangled has become one of my few “drop everything when they upload” channels because everything posted here is so interesting. You have shown your quality, the very highest!

@MarcSchießer22 3 years ago

Dark hair, because I like him being Fingon's son more. Him fighting Sauron at the end of the second age, reflecting his grandfather Fingolfin fighting Morgoth in the first age is simply more epic.

@christopherhicks8656 3 years ago

Fingolfin challenged Melkor alone, and fell. Fingon challenged Gothmog alone, and fell because Gothmog wasn't alone. Gil-galad challenged Sauron WITH Isildur, and though they both fell, they succeeded together where each of the others fell alone. And in the case of Fingon, Gil-galad's choice to NOT go alone, is the "mirror inversion" of the Fingon tragedy. To my mind, this is an epic example of Tolkien's incredible use of just these kinds of "echoes" to add layers of depth and poignancy to his incredible tale. Thanks for the video, and for the channel.

@viktorbauer5054 3 years ago

"Gil-galad was an Elven-king.
Of him the harpers sadly sing:
the last whose realm was fair and free
between the Mountains and the Sea.

His sword was long, his lance was keen,
his shining helm afar was seen;
the countless stars of heaven's field
were mirrored in his silver shield.

But long ago he rode away,
and where he dwelleth none can say;
for into darkness fell his star
in Mordor where the shadows are."

@neilf6782 3 years ago (edited)

Dave, listening to you explore Tolkien takes it all away from the regular IP experience (star wars, GOT, star trek etc etc) and directs it towards true myth (Greek, Roman, Nordic etc etc) whilst still retaining that unique historical flavour of Tolkien. I can't give you higher praise than that. Also respect for not treading the predictable path of dissecting the falsehoods in Amazon's how do i say it politely slightly unique take on the 2nd age and just focusing on Tolkien instead.

@terrystewart1973 3 years ago (edited)

There is of course a way in which both origin stories for Gil-Galad could be true. If Fingon had a Sindarin wife (maybe a close relation of Cirdan for example) and daughter, unrecorded by Tolkien, and if that daughter was the unnamed wife of Orodreth (brought up as Sindarin after Fingon's death) then Gil-galad would be both descended from Fingon (his grandson rather than son), and descended from the golden house of Finarfin, uniting both houses of the Noldor. That would then explain why the high kingship went to Turgon, Gil-Galad's uncle in this case.
Maybe I've missed something,

@fran5594 3 years ago

Was not expecting a real history lesson, that was so cool! Imagining the fall of gondolin being written in a trench in France gives it a different feel.

@fairlycrazy_yt 3 years ago

If I need to pick canon, it would be LOTR,the Silmarillion, the Hobbit and the rest of the published material, in that order.
Also i would love to be able to go back in time and give Tolkien a modern word processor so he could save and edit his work quicker and more efficiently 😊

@lukeblundell5610 3 years ago

We have SO much to thank Christopher for... Tolkien worked for his whole life on this but it NEEDED that care after life to compile the world.

@johnoddo8210 3 years ago

Man that last 15 minutes of the video really needs to be it’s own video! I feel like if more people knew the story of how Tolkien came up with all his stories the more would appreciate the lore.

@11thriddler17 3 years ago

Those last words, near 3 minutes or so near the end about what his work is and what his world is and what it all represents and the thought on cannon and why anyone would watch this till the end, absolutely beautifully said!!

@vc1396 2 years ago

I like the idea of Gil-Galad having silver hair yet somehow still being a descendant of Fingolfin's line

@AlejandroBetancourtweb 3 years ago

Dude! Your unrivalled knowledge of Tolkien's mythology makes me, with each video, love his lifeworks more and more.

Truly, it is a privilege to watch and listen to your analysis, in-depth knowledge of Tolkien's life and your views of how this mythology world could be explored.

You've earned your way to my TOP 3 Favorite YouTubers and I truly appreciate every nugget of knowledge you share with us.

MASSIVE THANK YOU, Stay groovy Rainbow Dave!

@Tar-Elenion 3 years ago (edited)

Gil-galad first appears as a Fëanorian (of unknown descent) in the Fall of Numenor (II) (HoME 5). This is dated to not later than 1937:
"And he took counsel with the Elves that remained in Middle-earth (and these abode then mostly in Beleriand); and he made a league with Gil-galad the Elf-king who was descended from Fëanor."

In the original (I) versions of Many Meetings/Council of Elrond (At Rivendell, HoME VI), dated to December 1938, Elrond states that Gil-galad is a descendant of Fëanor (which ties in with the original FNII):
"And he made an alliance with the Elf-king of those lands, whose name is Gilgalad (Starlight), a descendant of Fëanor the renowned. I remember well their council - for it reminded me of the great days of the ancient war, so many fair princes and captains were there, yet not so many or so fair as once had been.'"

@shehassee 3 years ago

My main influence of how to pronounce Gilgalad’s name is hearing Tolkien himself reading the poem mentioned. Back in 1972 or so I came upon a cassette tape in my high school library on which Tolkien read many of his poems and sang a couple songs he had made the tunes for. I have never heard of that tape again, sadly. On that tape Tolkien pronounced Gilgalad with the emphasis on the first syllable.

@kevinsullivan3448 3 years ago

I have the Peoms and Songs of Middle Earth, read by JRR himself, and he pronounced Gil-Galad like you do. That settled it for me.

@dawahaddict 3 years ago

Couldn’t he still be son of Fingon with silver hair? If there’s reason to think his mother could have been of the Sindar, couldn’t she have passed on the silver hair of the family of Thingol to him?