I think this should be part of the conversation about "Freebirth" as well. Freebirth is dangerous and horrible, but has anyone asked these women what they are so afraid of with doctors/hospitals?

That psychiatrists response is ironically pitting doctors against patients. We, as patients, are saying ‘yo, this is wrong.’ And instead of talking about where things went wrong it’s ’shush, I’m not gonna talk bad about another doc.’ Like… there’s a reason patients don’t tell psychiatrists everything.

Some doctors are great. Some doctors have no business being in medicine. Unfortunately with the American system you often get very little choice. Money drives who I can see. Then when you finally find good providers, insurance changes who you can see. It’s frustrating. Appreciate your content.

We should absolutely talk about things that are not right. How else can we expect change? Getting everyone on the same page

I told a lady "nurse" i was suicidal every single month before my period and I was told "oh honey dont you know thats normal" when i came with with 4 months of my moods charted at age 15. I was in for a pap smear a few months ago and my doctor asked about my symptoms and i was shocked and i said yeah im actually suicidal more like every two weeks before my period now and the physical symptoms are getting worse and she said "oh honey dont you know thats not normal". Different docs, same patronizing, SEXIST bullshit.

Bad systems, bad healthcare givers, and bad decisions can all exist separately, and in any combination, and the presence of one doesn't eliminate the others. That's why all of them have to be considered, especially in a situation as tragic as this

To any medical providers thinking this medical omerta is helpful, I propose this thought experiment that might help them understand how this actually looks from patient’s POV: think back to any questionable police conduct situation and tell us whether police dropping the wall of silence on those situations ever made you trust them more. Or maybe the exact opposite of that?

Not all people of capable of genuinely talking about this kind of self-awareness/professional defensiveness issue, so kudos. It can be hard for people.

As a woman with a CLASSIC case of a severe degenerative disease, I have 50 years of medical trauma, misogyny, gaslighting and malpractice under my belt, including FOUR, yes, FOUR instances of near death explicitly from medical negligence in the last 10 years alone. Just one example..while in hospital with a life threatening crisis, I was mistakenly given an invasive diagnostic procedure ordered for a DIFFERENT patient (a man no less!), so they missed the note on my chart about allergies and I went into anaphalctic shock from the drug that was administered as part of the procedure. Yeah, that really helped my already critical condition! I could go on.

It is only because I don't tolerate lazy incompetence and I aggressively advocate for myself that I am alive. There is nothing I have not experienced when it comes to this plague..a plague that largely affects women.

Now we have women dying in parking lots because they are denied healthcare and the argument always, ALWAYS lands on, "Those poor doctors! They are in such a difficult position!"

THEY are in a difficult position? SERIOUSLY? I am sick to near-death, both literally and figuratively, of their whining. If their situation is so untenable, what are they doing about it?

Unlike individual patients, who have no direct power, the medical profession has a massive, politically powerful lobbying organization behind it. Where is the AMA? Where are doctors going en masse to hospitals demanding change? I was very high up in hospital administration at one time. I know first hand that doctors have TREMENDOUS power. Other than the very few, amazing spirits who go on line to educate and advocate, they do not use their power for patients in general, or women in particular. Why? Because hospitals, the medical profession, the AMA..like all other organizations in this country...are run by men and men do not give a rats ass about women. Empowered women, healthy women, are too much for most men to handle. They are terrified of us and so use every tool in their repertoire to keep us under their thumbs. Look around. You know it is true. We wouldn't have the manospere otherwise.

We have known about and documented medical mysogyny as a modern social crime, not just a historic one, since the 1990's and nothing, absolutely NOTHING has changed. If anything, its gotten worse. Where is the outrage? Where are the demands? If the medical establishment wanted change, we would have it. We don't, because they like things just the way they are. I have NO quarter for these so called professionals that failed this woman.  They SHOULD be called out. They SHOULD be held accountable. There SHOULD be hard conversations.

Just a few days ago, I learned about some serious neurological damage caused by long term use of certain commonly prescribed pharmaceuticals. Some well known individuals have been permanently debilitated, because the problem was only discovered about five years ago. The excuse given for the harm these particular patients suffered since then, was that most specialists didn't know about the problem, because it was too recently discovered. Really? Five years isn't enough time to be brought up to speed on THE MOST COMMONLY PRESCRIBED drug for a well known, widely experienced medical condition? Are you kidding me? In my field, if a new development that affected, oh say 50% of my customer base had been around for FIVE YEARS and I wasn't up to speed about it, I would be fired for incompetence. Why aren't they?

In my VAST experience, only 1 out of every 15 or so specialists is worth the paper their diploma is printed on. I have never sued for money, because that is not what this is about, but I have personally seen to it that four different physicians faced consequences for their bias driven incompetence, including three being fired for cause and one losing hospital priviledges. I don't know of any hospital taking such actions of their own volition. So, where is the accountability?

We MUST start throwing the book at these charlatans and demanding more because our lives matter and we deserve  much, much better. If they can't deliver it, they should get out.

Patients, expecially women, who have been harmed need to fight back. Their families need to advocate on their behalf. Public outrage is a good place to start, so I say, start calling it like it is, start calling them out and by all means point fingers. Be difficult. Difficult. Be loud. Be obnoxious, angry, demanding. Because, to paraphrase the saying, well behaved women never accomplish change. In my experience that is 100% true, which is why my son, a neuroscientist, proudly calls me "She who makes Doctors cry."

I say, we should all get the T-shirt. Every last one of us who has been harmed by, or who watched family members suffer, because of medical mysogyny.

After a tragedy that so closely involves healthcare professionals, it is important to reflect. That’s a normal and healthy reaction. My take away  (as a healthcare worker) is to be careful when “passing the buck.” People’s lives are literally in our hands and we need to prioritize critical thinking in our care rather than efficiency.

My amazing psychiatrist of many years AND my primary care Dr retired this spring. Watching this case has me terrified of finding new providers.

Unlearning the impulse the circle the wagons and only have  incomplete private discussions is so important. Im really glad you're talking about this.

I have anxiety and depression been on meds off and on my whole life. I finally got a combination that made me feel normal and the doctor decided they no longer were going to prescribe it. They wanted to put me on a medication I was on before and it made me speak gibberish. I told them this and they still pushed it on me. When I ran out of meds I stopped them because I’m a mom and im not willing to be out of control.

"We shouldn't talk about it in case people get mad at doctors instead of capitalism" reads to me like defending everything doctors do and trying to shift the blame. Yes, the healthcare system is broken. Everyone knows that. But if the doctors themselves won't stand up to change even the conversation, where does that leave them? As part of the problem.

Patients are obligate consumers. We can either expose ourselves to the medical system or suffer/die. Doctors are providers. As a group, you have the most power and responsibility to fix this problem. What are you doing about it?

As a medically complicated medical psych professional (PA) myself, I totally agree that we need to hold HCPs accountable and we have to be honest about how bad it can be before we change things. Only truth will fix this and medical professionals cannot be coddled because it hurts our fee fees. We signed up for this and need to use science to fix the problem.

I am tired of having to find a new Primary Care Doctor.   The one I liked left the practice closest to my house.     I do not even live in a rural area.  I am however having trouble finding Dr close to my house or place of work.   I do not get paid time off.  The big hospital system closed down the office closest to my large community.  
I hate having to find new doctors due to changes in insurance, a change in jobs or a doctor office closing down.   It is exhausting.

I thought her response was a tactful way of saying that she didn't want to be involved in something this volatile. I can't blame her. Just because she specializes in this doesn't mean she want to dive into a shark pool. And she's also 100% right on our broken system and where the blame ultimately lies. Medical care wouldn't be like this if CEOs cared more about patients and doctors than lining their own pockets.

I agree completely! I think some healthcare providers forget that, in a patient-provider relationship, they are the ones that hold power/authority. Many (most!) providers use this authority to help their patients but many abuse it. This is exacerbated by a system that exploits providers AND patients.

The system is broken, it should be MUCH easier to institutionalize patients AGAINST their will for 14-30 days.  The Drs could NOT hold her. She went in for a long weekend and then chose to leave the facility. The facility could NOT hold her against her will.