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Why Mormon Leaders Fear This Woman

Alyssa Grenfell

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The Mormon Church has its own branch of “approved” therapists, but what happens when a Mormon therapist starts challenging church teachings? In this video, I sit down with Dr. Julie de Azevedo, a Utah therapist with over 30 years of experience working with Mormon women, to discuss the complicated relationship between therapy and Mormonism. We explore religious trauma, sexual shame, the loss of personal identity, and why some church members view therapy as a threat to their faith. Julie also shares how her advocacy for women and LGBTQ members led to backlash, complaints to church leaders, and repeated meetings with her stake presidents. Though she spent her entire life in the church, she finally decided to step away.

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A few resources I mention in the video:
*My video on Patreon about my own experiences with a Mormon therapist: https://www.patreon.com/alyssadgrenfe...
*Julie’s therapy practice: wasatchfamilytherapy.com
*Julie on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjuliedeaz...
*Julie on YouTube: juliedeazevedohanks
*Julie’s therapy and coaching website: https://www.drjuliehanks.com/
*Julie’s book, The Assertiveness Guide for Women: https://tinyurl.com/cv8mydnc
*Holland speech about how therapy: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...
*Julie talks about aspirational shame: https://breaking-down-patriarchy.capt...

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Where to find me:
*Patreon (ad free & bonus content): https://patreon.com/alyssadgrenfell?u...
*Read my book, How to Leave the Mormon Church: https://amzn.to/4na4rpo
*TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@alyssadgrenfe...
*Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alyssadgren...
*Email me: alyssadgrenfell@gmail.com

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Support my channel:
*Patreon (ad free & bonus content): https://patreon.com/alyssadgrenfell?u...

20 Comments

@alyssadgrenfell Creator 10 hours ago Pinned

Ready to be seen? Check that appointment off your to-do list with Zocdoc ✅ : https://zocdoc.com/grenfell #sponsored

@trubrit5036 6 hours ago (edited)

I was a daughter. I was a wife. I was a mother. I was never allowed to be ME. Thankfully, after moving away from the church, I found ME. Now I am a daughter, wife and mother, but I am definitely ME first, and that way I can be better in all of the other areas.

@bobinoly777 9 hours ago (edited)

Wow, Utah is already facing a massive mental health shortage, and desperately needs more therapists. But right now it seems like BYU’s psych programs are basically handing out degrees that prioritize church dogma over actual science. Think Sunday school with a notepad. When vulnerable people, think of kids or folks trying to figure out who they are and sitting on a therapist's couch, they deserve a safe space, not an uninvited religious agenda. It’s time for the Utah legislature to step up, protect the public, making sure our mental health care is guided by professional ethics, not a pulpit.

@olivergaag 4 hours ago

I know Mormon women have it incredibly hard, and I can’t begin to imagine what that experience is like. But as a gay Mormon man who dreamed of becoming a Broadway actor, and for whom the prospect of eternal marriage and children was absolutely horrifying, I think I can relate on some level. Thankfully, during my mission, I had a realization and made myself a promise: I’d finish my degree at BYU, and then I was OUT!

@Glennn7 7 hours ago

24:58 "There's a price you pay for abandoning yourself that early in life..." So well said and so true.

@SarahBoyden 7 hours ago

& how ironic she was in apostasy for pointing out garments patterned after men’s underwear & then they went ahead and took her advice & made a skirt!!😂They should be paying her a consultation fee not kicking her out I can’t even 😅

@Chew5219 9 hours ago

If your body is a temple and you should take care of it, your brain is part of your body. If the Word of Wisdom was really about taking care of yourself, it would include exercise and mental health.

@malachitelimestone 8 hours ago

I became suicidal and finally told my parents that I do not believe in god, let alone mormonism. I was taken to the ER and my dad wanted me to be held for a 72 hr watch but they deemed it unnecessary and other than that I wasn't given any therapy. If I wasn't so scared of messing up I would have at least have made an attempt.
Years later my youngest sister started exhibiting similar symptoms and I begged my parents to send her to therapy, stressing the fact that I would likely not be here if I was less of a coward (for lack of a better word). They have refused because they are convinced therapy will make her trans. (Jokes on them because even without therapy she is gay and rejects mormonism)
Therapy and medication saved my life. I am so beyond infuriated that my parents won't give that to my sister. I am glad to be able to be there for all four of my little sisters, but damn I shouldn't have to be the only one standing up for their wellbeing.
"Just praying" almost killed me. If the worst happens and I lose my sister I will never speak to my parents again, it will be their fault and I will make sure they feel the full weight of that guilt. Although honestly once she moves out I probably will at least go low contact if I don't go completely scorched earth on them 😅
Please please send your kids to therapy. Proper secular therapy, it saves lives. ❤

@ashantimayrovi 10 hours ago

Heavenly mother blessing me with a vid to listen on my night routine 😊 thank you Alyssa

@ashleeaolson 6 hours ago

19:41 I chose not to have children, for a variety of reasons, even before I left the church (when I was clearly in my way out) and as the only daughter in my family, my dad asked me what I’m good for because I don’t have kids. We are no contact now, but this point about aspirational shame or wanting a life outside of the traditional gender roles for women, reminded me of his comment. Thinking and having a life for yourself, particularly as a woman, is NOT well received by many church members.

@goodandgreen 9 hours ago

Thank you for speaking up for mental health in high control groups. It’s a hard road.

@scabigalemartinez2631 10 hours ago

What a great guest!!! I'm so excited!!!

@andyvannen 4 hours ago

Thank you to Alyssa and Julie for a wonderful video/podcast episode. I'm in my first year of my MSW and I spent this last summer facing all the "truths" that we were NOT told. Burying information is still attempting to withhold information-allowing it to exist in the nether regions of the church's website is still trying to hide it yet still carving out the caveat of "it's there on the internet and on the website it's not our fault you didn't look so you can't sue us because we technically disseminated the information." I'm decended from Smith lineage (not JS but a cousin), and it was very focused on family is the church when I was growing up. The gospel topics essays are a slap in the face. It's hard, deconstructing, because it's tearing out an identity that I would say is so strong it's in the DNA. Also, look up epigenetics, I think that plays a role as well. The healing takes a while. I can honestly say I wasn't planning on having a whole existential crisis at the beginning of my graduate career. A lot of what was said here really spoke to me. I might be listening to this one over and over.

@chelsey7844 6 hours ago (edited)

I fully believe that the reason why they have therapists and no other Mormon professionals is because they use their therapists to manipulate their members. A Mormon therapist can continue to manipulate you, make you feel ashamed, and ultimately keep you in it

@DakotaWeed 10 hours ago

i cant explain how much the church has seperated me from real life 😑

@joyce7892 7 hours ago

Amen! I did what Benson said. It makes me very angry. I joined the church and married. before membership I was headed to the university!!!
I'm 72 now and can't turn the clock back.
Enjoyed the entire interview.

@JennRighter 3 hours ago

Alyssa this felt a lot like a therapy session for you, and I mean no shame toward you for that. I actually think it’s wonderful, for you, for the entire audience, especially for women. I love your content despite being an atheist most of my life and not relating to any of the religious aspect. I relate to it as a woman. Because all women endure this sort of treatment in society, religions just amplify to what extent. Thank you. Lovely guest. One of my favorite videos you’ve done and I e watched most of your videos.

@ArtistFormallyKnownasMC 7 hours ago

This was a great conversation. I grew up Church of Christ in Florida.
I just learned that we’re like 6 degrees of separation from Mormons. There was a man named Sidney who was preaching with the guys who split off to church of Christ. He left and went with Joseph Smith!!
The 1800’s were wild. Super culty vibes. 😂😂