Also sorry for the weird movement of the character stills in the video. I wanted to originally have the whole thing be facecam, but I’ve had some complications with being able to record / film in an easier manner (I.e. a 12 minute video is like 2ish hours of recording because I can’t get things to flow well at all)

I’ll do better in the future

But regardless, I still hope you enjoyed the topic discussion

I don't mind the pup hoods, both a cheap alternative to the expensive fursuit heads, and personally being a grey muzzle. back in 2013 when "being a furry" was being "that weird animal fetishist" having that struggle to fight against that stigma. Seeing people wearing the pup hoods in non-sexual settings, I understand that struggle and flak they get

It boils down to people saying "STOP PRETENDING TO BE A GAY DOG DIFFERENTLY THAN HOW I PRETEND TO BE A GAY DOG."

I run one of the largest uk fur meets - we unbanned pup hoods last year as the city we host in has a huge pup scene we wanted to extend an place branch too as furries had been welcome at pup even for years. (We also host out event in the gay village, in a 18+ venue - it isn’t a nsfw meet but we don’t allow minors to attend)

We had quietly unbanned them for several months as a trial run, reviving positive feedback, until we made a public announcement about allowing pup hoods at our events. A group of particularly unhappy furries phoned the police on us and attempted to get our venue (not just the meet but the venue to, one of our cities only independently owned queer friendly bars) shut down. While the wider local community embraces the change a small angry group of furries tries to cause legitimate harm to a small business and shut down a furmeet attended by 700+ people just because we allowed pup hoods.

I wouldn’t call myself a pup personally, but still feel so deeply saddened by the hate pups revive.

Thankfully the complaints made to the police and local arthritis went no where and our little community has counted to grow!

Also, not all pups use pup play for adult/bedroom reasons. I am a pup but am pretty much asexual so for me it's a comfort and roleplay/mindset thing rather than an adult/bedroom thing. If someone doesn't want to interact with me at a con because I am wearing a hood, thats their choice. But attacking people over it doesn't get anyone anywhere.

Hold on- is... is there a life jacket KINK thing?! I thought people just wanted that puffer jacket vibe +5 silly -2 sleeves

I agree 100 percent people don’t have to like or be comfortable with how someone else looks but for gosh sake don’t be mean. It’s not necessary. I really wish people would stop being mean just because they don’t like something. This is the problem with online spaces because people say mean things that they won’t say in person and it’s just as evil to be mean online as in person. Be nice everyone please.

the lifestyle/sex split is really not in pups' favor. there are plenty of pups who want a safe space that the furry community provides outside of the sex conventions they are usually associated with. we all don't want to go to only sex positive spaces, but more friends/community spaces.

I'm not even a pup, but I think they should definitely be allowed to wear their gear. If furries and fursuiters can walk around with collars, leashes, and HARNESSES --which have been in BDSM longer than puphoods and furry have even existed, pups should be left alone.

And I BET a dude in a harnessed fursuit with a leather thong on was the biggest complainer about pups.

And to the Pups, I just wanna say, whooooooo's a good doggie? YOU are! Yes you are!

I've worn a hood to a few local conventions, and OH, BOY have I heard some opinions. I will say that I agree with a lot of your points, be it the self-expression of hoods, and how they can help people be more open in conventions, but I do understand the anti-hood side. I understand how they feel, and that's fine. That's valid. Good video, and good points.

I usually avoid drama like these by just not saying anything or just ignoring stuff that bothers me instead of opening up my mouth and grabbing attention and such.

Who here is old enough to remember the Tripp brand? I mean, it still exists, but it's not as popular as it was in the early 2000s. For all intents and purposes, though, they make fetish gear, and yet people used to walk around all the time wearing their products without the general public clutching their pearls over it. Hell, kids would wear them to school, and it's because the brand used to be a staple in Goth culture. Let's be honest here; when furry and its subgroups are attacked for "engaging in public kink", the people doing the attack aren't doing it for moralistic reasons. It's homophobia wearing a "for the children" T-shirt. There's a major double-standard happening here, and I'm of the mind that if you aren't actively waving your junk around for everyone to see, what you wear is not inherently sexual. Intent is highly pertinent to context, and just because something gives people comfort doesn't mean they're wanting to fuck. Like, how is this any different from women being blamed for being sexually assaulted? "If she didn't want it, she shouldn't have dressed that way" is no different than the things being said about this stuff. Because furry is largely queer, though, the hatred gets a pass.

You know, I've heard people object to pride flags because they are a "sex thing" and seeing them in public makes them uncomfortable and shouldn't be around children, etc.  It sucks.  I'm not going to do that to anyone else.

My genuine reaction to people wearing pup hoods: “Cool bro”.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the argument! I don't participate in online drama so I was unaware of most of the context you mentioned. I have a pup hood and I love using it as a form of self expression. Although, I don't see myself as much of a pup play participant. For me, it is a more affordable alternative to be myself/my character since I don't have a fursuit yet. I am very new to cons, or just embracing my character in general. Having the pup hood really does help fill that confidence level in these massive events. I am very aware of the NSFW meaning behind the hood and I respect it. My first con, ANW is a family friendly event and I had no issues with not wearing it in public spaces. Vancoufur was more open to, we'll call it adult gear like you said. So I have two very different experiences under my belt now. I found both to be very enjoyable for different reasons. ANW was a more chill event when I was worried about getting overwhelmed. Which I didn't! Pup hoods or any other nsfw gear weren't allowed and I do remember hearing the drama regarding that. It is a family event and I am a firm believer in 'time and place' mindset. Not an issue for me, it was a great start to my adventure with experiencing cons! Vancoufur, again was more open especially in the AD times and I was allowed to wear my hood. It really did help break that barrier that can halt me from breaking the ice with others. There were also a lot more of my friends at Vancoufur so I want to credit them as well. The hood again does get treated as an alt suit for me and it helped allow myself to welcome that mindset into my life! It's never intended to cause discomfort among others and I will happily follow whatever rules are given to me for the better of all. Often times, I won't wear it outside of a con/event space (say I am going to get food). With that being said, I am greatly looking forward to continuing my journey of going to cons and embracing my character, Anzen. Hopefully I can so in a fursuit in the not too distant future! LVFC/FWA here I come! Thank you for the video Beta <3

The fandom drama wheel could power a whole city with how fast we spin it

I would consider this whole disagreement more seriously if there was a remotely the same sensitivity around more stereotypical heterosexual sexual things/kink.

Nothing and I mean NOTHING will compare to me when my boyfriend and I went to a convention in Minneapolis (NOT Furry Migration) and saw a kid younger than 14, walking around with his family in a Pup Hood and a latex tail. I wanted to snap a pic, because parts of me think people won't believe me, but I know if I had it'd get the wrong kind of attention and be exposed to the wrong kind of people.

There's an anxiety about exhibitionists and predators pushing other people's boundaries by normalizing things like kink gear, that's an almost eternal fight which is hard for the everyman to budge.  The thing is in ideal circumstances wearing kink gear makes a big ask to others that they trust it's not a kink thing to you, or that if it is you brought your clean set that doesn't get used "like that".

its hard for me to not see it as a sexual thing but it directly reflects what people say of fursuits as well. i will most likely never not see a sexual thing in it, but i will give them the benefit of the doubt regardless. innocent until proven guilty.

and no, having them wear it in sexual context does not make it "only sexual". its not that simple.

if they ever run around with bdsm straps topless and so on, then i would have a different stance, but that should not be because of the puphood, same way a tail plug is sexual bc of its sexual nature, not its tail part.