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Should NYC Build Median Highway Lines?

Joint Transit Association

Joint Transit Association

60,073 views

This was inspired by a question on Reddit: Reddit: do_you_think_subway_extensions_on_highway

Sources/Further Reading
https://onthemap.ces.census.gov
https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-...
https://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_in...
https://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/rou...

Pictures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiehle%...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Line_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program...
https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/about/pr...
https://www.pexels.com/video/traffic-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaGuard...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/145th_S...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/180th_S...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interst...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrai...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Is...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bx12_bu...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bx36_(N...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staten_...

20 Comments

@snowless456-avatar
@snowless456 2 years ago
They say the worst type of station is a freeway median one (shoutout Alan Fisher), but the actual worst type of station is no station at all
@ArisFilms-avatar
@ArisFilms 2 years ago (edited)
I took 3 buses along Horace Harding for high school and thought this every single day
@stickynorth-avatar
@stickynorth 2 years ago
Absolutely however they need to be designed like the Montreal REM stations along their freeways which means enclosed station structures with advanced automated trains that have AC and HEPA filtration so that the air indoors is way cleaner than outside... Chinese have similar PM 2.5 cleaning tech and monitoring systems and seem obsessed with them for a good reasons...
@BigBlueMan118-avatar
@BigBlueMan118 2 years ago (edited)
Environmental scientist here - @1:14 this is actually showing that air quality (in this case fine particulate matter PM2.5) improved significantly between the late-2000s and the mid-2010s which is a great thing. As for the highway median station option, with platform screen doors it is now possible to fully enclose a highway median station and shield it from outside noise, weather & pollution, see the new REM highway median stations in Montreal as a good example of this.

NYC and the MTA are struggling to build anything for even remotely acceptable costs, the costs of projects are insane, and unfortunately this seems to have lead to the insane decision to try and build the Interborough Express as a LR line with some street running to get an "easy win" on the board, whereas I would suggest an easy win for them could actually be to do the QueensLink and this suggested highway median line as subway extensions.
@nassid8867-avatar
@nassid8867 2 years ago
I used to commute from the northern Bronx (lived near Woodlawn station on the 4 train) all the way to Queens College. I hated how nearly every other college in the city had a subway station on or near them , yet Queens College had none. I had to take the F train to Forest Hills and the Q64 to campus. The Horace Harding expressway line would've been a game changer.
@AverytheCubanAmerican-avatar
@AverytheCubanAmerican 2 years ago
Exactly, a median station on its own is poorly designed, but if you have the density to back it up AND have it enclosed in a way that you're protected from all that noise pollution like having platform screen doors like the REM stations in Montreal do, then it can be great design! Even better if there's a bus hub. And on the REM, it shares the Champlain bridge with a highway, so it's a necessity for Montreal transit, and connecting the suburbs. The more suburban drivers who choose rail over their car to get to work, errands, or see a show, the better! Du Quartier on the REM is next to a highway, but it was built to have access to the Dix30 shopping mall and there's nice housing too. I also have little issue with the Orange and Silver Lines of the DC Metro utilizing highways in their western segments (west of Ballston-MU). By the time you reach areas like Whiele-Reston East on the Silver Line or Dunn Loring on the Orange Line, the density is low enough that it makes more sense to save some cost and prioritize speed so you can get to the big TOD stations like Ballston-MU or the downtown DC stations like Farragut West.

On the LIRR, the Babylon Branch aren't median stations, but it runs along NY State Route 27 or Sunrise Highway. However, the Babylon Branch came way before the highway as it originally opened in the 1860s while the highway first opened in the mid-1920s, so the highway follows the trains, not the other way around. And the Babylon Branch is completely grade separated, but it wasn't always this way. When it got its start in the 1860s as part of South Side Railroad of Long Island, it was all ground-level crossings, and this became a problem as more people moved to the south shore of Long Island. So a mega project was launched in the 1950s to build the stations on elevated viaducts, with the last station along the branch to be elevated was Massapequa Park in 1980.  To supplement Route 27, there is parking to lure people off the highway and different NICE and Suffolk Transit buses serve the stations as well, with the addition of Jones Beach bus service from Freeport making it possible to go to Jones Beach concerts by transit.
@Predes67lnsfort9-avatar
@Predes67lnsfort9 1 year ago
6 to Co op City is good idea cause visiting Queens is a nightmare.
@BMTEnjoyer160-avatar
@BMTEnjoyer160 2 years ago
They should as that means there can be more subway lines
@JosephRondaUSMCVet-avatar
@JosephRondaUSMCVet 2 years ago
The highway by Co-Op City is not the Cross Bronx Expressway. Its the New England Thruway
@JSythe-avatar
@JSythe 2 years ago
I want a Bronx to Queens train. In my fantasy map, I have a train line running under Laconia Ave then on Williamsbridge Rd after Pelham Pkwy, then under some houses to Bronxdale Ave, then through the Metropolitan Oval to Parkchester, then down White Plans Rd all the way to its southern end then underwater to Queens then through College Point, Flushing Main St, then all the way through main street, then finally taking over the airtrain to JFK.
@bigdude101ohyeah-avatar
@bigdude101ohyeah 2 years ago
My birthplace - Perth, Australia - used freeway medians for two (with a third currently under construction) of their train lines, and it works well because almost every station on those lines have a convenient bus interchange (some literally on top of or underneath the train platforms), and the bus routes in those areas are designed specifically as feeders.

However, Perth (as a city) isn't great with land use, and most stations have park-and-rides - with that being said, the stations in higher density areas are more pedestrian-friendly, and the stations in greenfield areas will usually have at least a shopping centre within walking distance.

It's great fun speeding along on the train while watching angry drivers stuck in traffic at peak hour.
@romanrat5613-avatar
@romanrat5613 2 years ago (edited)
The biggest problem with a Cross-Bronx Expwy rapid transit line is that there is literally nowhere to put it without taking half of the road away (impossible - it's i95). There are so many narrow cuttings, tunnels, overpasses, viaduct portions, and extremely hard yet unstable rock it cuts through. Essentially you would have to build a new Cross-Bronx Expwy (for trains) parallel--already an incredibly difficult process the first time--but this time with way higher costs, environmental reviews, and the fact that it would be completely impossible politically.
@danielsamuels5857-avatar
@danielsamuels5857 1 year ago
14:39 When it comes to Horace Harding, don’t forget the QM1, QM5 and QM6 together have the highest ridership of all the express bus routes.
@dylanryall-avatar
@dylanryall 2 years ago
Instead of building transit in highway/expressway medians, we should shift the car lanes to fill most of the median and build the transit on one side of the right of way. This takes stations out of the median and improves walking access, at least on the side of the highway the transit line is on.
@MindRail1-avatar
@MindRail1 2 years ago
As a daily Bx12-SBS rider, i can vouch heavily for a subway line or something that isnt busses crosstown on fordham road. The entire trip time is so high it is not even funny. This bus takes 10 years to get to stops, is always delayed, and is absolutely terrible at speed. I go to inwood often, and from sedgwick avenue it can take upwards of 30 minutes to just cross the bridge into Manhattan. Pair that with the busses being congested as hell and it is not fun.
@harlander-harpy-avatar
@harlander-harpy 2 years ago
You can build highway stations to be substantially less awful than the ones in CHI, PDX, and LA
Seattle has a number of highway median express bus stations and a number of link stations are right next to the highway and they don't suck to stand in because we have figured out this neat thing called noise protection
@caltrustheprocess592-avatar
@caltrustheprocess592 2 years ago
I love these videos about building subway lines. I always look forward to them. Highway median lines I’ve been saying that Union Turnpike needs a line to travel along with the Q46. The Horace Harding line is much needed. I love the ingenious idea of extending the E on the right of way Atlantic Branch. Since the Montauk branch eventually joins with the Atlantic branch near Rosedale, the LIRRs can just travel there and still go to their Babylon, Long Beach, West Hempstead etc. terminals. Throggs Neck needs a line, and Lafayette is most appropriate. Extending the Astoria line after Ditmars and then turning is a great way. Extending the 6 would be great, but I think there needs to be room for some type of easier connection to the upcoming Penn Station Metro north access station at Co-Op City which is all the way at the back. Hopefully, they won’t try to use the Penn Station access as an excuse not to extend the 6. A crosstown line would be great to replace the BX12. I think a small tunnel would be the best solution at around Webster Avenue, but maybe a short length stone embankment around where I87 is. But these are great proposals.
@LinhNgoc-x3n-avatar
@LinhNgoc-x3n 5 months ago
Your videos are always so helpful, thank you!
@richiew32-avatar
@richiew32 2 years ago
Yes!!! This is the best idea that came about!! I thought about this idea just a few weeks ago. Build a subway line under the parkway/expressway and build a subway line under the Grand Central Pkwy to serve La Guardia Airport, Northern Blvd, Main St/Kissena Blvd/Sutphin Blvd, Long Island Expressway to Little Neck Pkwy, and extended eastwards via Northern Blvd to Little Neck Pkwy. Finally a plan that I will definitely support.
@joshgross7791-avatar
@joshgross7791 6 months ago
These transit videos are great.
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Should NYC Build Median Highway Lines?

Joint Transit Association

Joint Transit Association

60,073 views

This was inspired by a question on Reddit: Reddit: do_you_think_subway_extensions_on_highway

Sources/Further Reading
https://onthemap.ces.census.gov
https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-...
https://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_in...
https://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/rou...

Pictures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiehle%...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Line_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program...
https://www.nyc.gov/site/doh/about/pr...
https://www.pexels.com/video/traffic-...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaGuard...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/145th_S...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/180th_S...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interst...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrai...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Is...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bx12_bu...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bx36_(N...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staten_...