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Why Carlson Gracie HATED Helio's BJJ System | Robert Drysdale Pt. 3

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Most people believe the Gracie family was a united front, but behind the scenes, a massive rift was forming that would change Jiu-Jitsu forever. In Part 3 of our series with Robert Drysdale, we go deep into "The Split." Why did Carlson Gracie fundamentally reject Helio’s teaching methodology? Was the "Grandmaster" legacy overhyped? We explore the brutal rivalry between uncle and nephew, the shift from self-defense to high-level competition, and why Carlson is arguably the most influential figure in BJJ history—even if he often goes under the radar.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Intro

1:30 - The miracle that happened: what does this mean?

3:30 - All male kids building BJJ

4:35 - Leheal Biogenix Ad

5:00 - Helio’s obsession against Judo

8:30 - The Carlson and Helio Rivalry

10:15 - Rorion Gracie’s Role

13:45 - The IBJJF Contribution

18:00 - Breaking down Carlson’s Style

23:00 - BJJ Instructional Reels

23:35 - Carlos Gracie’s Main Contribution

27:15 - Is Helio’s Contribution Overhyped?

30:00 - Was Helio actually unathletic?

37:50 - Why Carlson is the most influential athlete in BJJ

39:00 - The deep-seated rivalry: Carlson vs. Helio

41:45 - Comparing Training Methodologies

43:30 - The Blue Belt in 36 lessons?

48:00 - Helio & Carlson’s Mentality shift

51:00 - Carlson and Rolls: The new rivalry

58:30 - What would BJJ look like without Carlson?

1:03:30 - Why does Carlson go under the radar?

1:10:00 - The Lost Era: What BJJ looked like before the shift

Join the Conversation:
Did Carlson Gracie "save" Jiu-Jitsu by moving toward competition, or did we lose something vital from Helio's original vision? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.

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20 Comments

@realistAndréo-w2k 6 months ago Pinned

part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVakMnDBOVQ

part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3x0YSkMv4I

@MikeyKrayKray 5 months ago

It’s really cool how Robert has become a historian. He’s really studied and delve into all of this. He’s a great guy, a wonderful coach and a great competitor.

@TonyPacenski 6 months ago

Dr. Kano in his writing of Mind Over Muscle does not downplay strength as an attribute and quite the opposite. He expresses that it is an attribute and it can be used in Judo yet is secondary. Kano is explicit: physical strength is useful, but it is not the foundation of Judo.
He repeatedly emphasizes that technique, timing, balance, and intelligent use of energy are superior to raw muscular force.

@MrMZaccone 6 months ago

"In my father's house, jiu-jitsu was not mandatory ... it was inevitable." - Rorion Gracie

@sliderx1897 6 months ago

I've really been enjoying this series

@Sidecontrol1234 5 months ago

I have spent some time talking with Carlson Gracie Jr, the nicest most laid back man you'll meet.

@ScottGlossner 6 months ago

Carlson was 19 years older than Rolls, huge age difference. Even more than Carlos Sr and Helio.

@interestedparty7523 6 months ago

I honestly think that the BJJ community will fail to really appreciate Robert's contribution, since it flies in the face of a bunch of falsehoods and outright lies. Maybe 15 years from now, when the OG's get so old, their influence dies off, maybe.

@HauckJiu-Jitsu 6 months ago (edited)

(I come from one of Carlson’s black belts.) One day in ‘97, when Carlson was visiting our school, I got to talk with Carlson at length and I asked him about the importance of the BJJ self-defense curriculum. -Carlson was very gracious answering all my dumb questions.
My teacher was translating, but I was kinda surprised to hear Carlson say, in English, “No self-defense, no Jiu jitsu. “ He actually said it twice in a row. There was a pause and my teacher said “… we’re going to be doing more of this.” LOL. But, we never truly did. Just a little bit here and there. I only spent time with Carlson a handful of times, he was 100% about winning . He just could not tolerate bad jiu jitsu nor low effort. Period.

@TheKungFuGenius 6 months ago

Loving this series, thank you.

@a-mac_12 5 months ago

Thank you so much for this. Amazing series. This the best one. 🙏🏻

@NoLimitsJJ 4 months ago

Excellent interview, I appreciate Robert’s research.

@BillySoundFarm 3 months ago

I've trained at two gyms with different lineage, and I thought the difference in culture and pedagogy was a result of the respective local coaches, but after watching this I see it actually goes back to Brazil. So fascinating!

@kungfumartialarts 6 months ago

One of the best interviews on BJJ. Thanks.

@themartialartway 4 months ago

I’m a karateka (13 years 17:30 who also does bjj(8 years). I strongly love his episode because we need history to a martial arts.

@PauloBerni699 6 months ago (edited)

I love this series. I greatly appreciate Drysdale’s incredibly in-depth research, honesty and articulate presentation; it’s a treat to hear him speak on the subject.

I used to take in a lot of what I formerly understood about the Gracie’s from family historian, archivist and writer Kid Peligro, who wrote articles and co authored several books in the mid-later 90’s and early 2000’s. Coming from a Judo background before immersing myself in “Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu” (I just love the name and distinction) I knew however that the entirety of the history of Gracie/BJJ pre-Drysdale wasn’t totally accurate.

@christophervelez1561 6 months ago

Dude this is my favorite series on YouTube!

@keystothetruth 6 months ago

Could listen to this for hrs

@haskewjiujitsu8758 6 months ago

Incredible content....thank you for doing this

@CTGracie 4 months ago (edited)

I got my blue belt signer my Carlson Sr. My coach got his black belt from Sr essentially before he died. Fabio waited for it, he could have gotten it from renzo, relson and other bjj family, but he waited for Sr to put it on him. I saw it. It was not a ceremony, there were no clapping and hugging, but rather Carlson put it on Fabio behind the desk. He was always high level but he waited for Sr. Everyone remembered that, all of Fabio's student on that day. I love Sr.

When sr came into the gym, first time there to do a seminar, I was drilling with a my partner, Carlson instead of looking around, came to us and corrected my bad tech on butterfly guard. Man... Looking back it's one of my fond limited moments with Sr...

Also during that seminar, Sr thought I was strong and wanted me to demo, Fabio and other coaches said 'no no', Carlson was shocked 😂😂. If only Sr can see me now, I live up to his idea of bjj and spreading his style in china. I am the embodiment of Sr. Only people who can tell me what to do are higher belts from Carlson lineage in china, hense no one.
Rip Carlson Sr. Thank you for bringing bjj to the world.