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Carlo Rovelli: Love and Quantum Physics are the Same | The Futurology Podcast

Futurology

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We treat the self as bedrock. But look closely, and the ground gives way. Over the last century, quantum physics has systematically dismantled the illusion of a constant, solid material reality. A particle has no properties until it meets another. A color lives in the meeting of object and eye, not in the object. The self may be the same. Not a thing you carry, but something that happens between you and everyone else.

In this episode, physicist Carlo Rovelli takes the relational thinking behind his physics and turns it on consciousness. The question we treat as deepest, what the self is, is the wrong question. A riddle with no answer. The self is not an illusion. It’s just made of everything around it. Your family, friends, partner, even enemies. Take the relations away, and there’s no there there.

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Apple Podcasts
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...

Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/show/2I38HvH...

Mentioned in this Episode:

White Holes — Carlo Rovelli (Book, 2023)
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...

The Fundamental Wisdom of the Middle Way: Nagarjuna's Mulamadhyamakakarika — Nagarjuna, translated by Jay L. Garfield (Book, 1995)
https://global.oup.com/academic/produ...

The Complete Works of Zhuangzi — translated by Burton Watson (Book, 2013)
https://cup.columbia.edu/book/the-com...

Duino Elegies & The Sonnets to Orpheus — Rainer Maria Rilke, translated by Stephen Mitchell (Book, 1923)
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...

Chapters
(0:00) Introduction
(0:57) How Carlo Fell in Love With Quantum Mechanics
(6:37) The Unfinished Problem of Quantum Gravity
(12:21) Why Love and Electrons Are Made of the Same Stuff
(15:34) Flipping the Hard Problem of Consciousness
(25:32) How Different Cultures Conceived of Consciousness
(32:10) A Relational Way of Understanding Quantum Mechanics
(44:48) How Nagarjuna's Emptiness Relates to Quantum Physics
(50:13) Defining the Illusion of the “Self”
(54:34) Finding Meaning in Pure Physics
(1:04:55) Why Time Flows in Only One Direction

Where to Find Carlo Rovelli:

Academic homepage
https://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/~rovelli/

Centre de Physique Théorique
https://www.cpt.univ-mrs.fr/~rovelli/

X (Twitter): @carlorovelli
https://x.com/carlorovelli

Berggruen Institute profile
https://berggruen.org/people/carlo-ro...

Show ideas and feedback? Email:
futurology@berggruen.org

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Credits
Executive Producers: Nicolas Berggruen, Nathan Gardels, Nils Gilman, Dawn Nakagawa, & Jason Hoch
Producers: Grant Slater, Alex Gardels, & Nathalia Ramos
Associate Producer: Elissa Mardiney
Theme Music: Marcus Bagala
Audio Engineer: Aaron Bastinelli & Kyle Scott Wilson

Futurology is a production of Studio B and Wavland for the Berggruen Institute in Los Angeles, California.

20 Comments

@losutil 1 day ago

“There’s no riddle” is paradoxically pretty mysterious.

@Ulxshn7l 1 month ago (edited)

Who is this lady Claire please? 😂 She asked brilliant questions! So refreshing to watch interview that has knowledgable host ❤

@PoetawDrodze 5 days ago

Dziękuję za fantastyczną rozmowę. Serdeczności ślę ze szlaku, szlaku życia.

@martinsaint-michel5093 2 months ago

Carlo Rovelli is a wise person. I enjoy his visions. We need more of him

@williamjmccartan8879 3 weeks ago (edited)

There is no "I" without "We"

Excellent interview, thank you both very much for sharing your time, work, experience and knowledge, peace

@byronbates7404 3 months ago

Nothing but nothingness stands alone until something comes along and interacts with it. Love is similar in its approach to humanity and without love humanity falls trap to nothingness, emptiness, void, zero.

@victoriagiardinieri1904 3 months ago

Her questions are excellent

@farhadtowfiq6767 2 months ago

Love is an awareness of one's trajectory towards the merging with the beloved.

@AdamThyer 12 days ago

Fabulous interview ♥️

@AliB8444 2 months ago (edited)

Carlo should use Thich Nhat Hanh's account of inter-being to explain emptiness. Also, later, at minute 53 he locates self in brain and then only adds in the body whereas Thich Nhat Hanh's teaching on the "island of the self ' is thoroughly corporeal with breath (Darwin's pneumogastric nerve) centering the living person in ceaseless change (permanent impermanence).

@MM-dh3wr 2 months ago

Love is the interface between distinguishable and indistinguishable observation. Indistinguishability in observation is compassion…divine.

@jmboUnreal 3 months ago (edited)

"There is no ultimate description of reality" sounds quite like an ultimate description of reality. It describes something about reality, and saying that it is in no way possible sounds pretty ultimate to me.

@rudigerschlaff8521 10 days ago

I suspect consciousness is fundamental.

@ToniSammons-vc9wg 1 month ago

Darling conversation.

@ginnyb6895 1 month ago

Please pass the message to Carlo, if he is writing about QM & love, see my ecophilosophy Fluminism (a symbioethic) as an ethic of ecology/flow/resistance/love/ flattens hierarchies by relatedness. My PhD also cites Helgoland. :)

@gabsgabs5028 2 months ago

We are part of the flow....❤❤❤❤thank you

@victoriagiardinieri1904 3 months ago

This is such an incredibly beautiful talk.

@birdthompson 3 months ago

Bodhisattva Manjushri!! Thank you so much!!

@vlrkst 2 months ago

Beautiful knowlefge thank you!

@FrazzleDazzle9 1 month ago (edited)

Lots of statements & opinions, but as to love & quantum physics it becomes quite convoluted. Love is the spiritual version (expression) of the workings of the material world (physics). One represents our true reality & is eternal whilst the other is confined to the physical realm, meant for discovery & learning. If our spiritual reality is left out of the equation, we’ll be only going round in circles. It is understanding & free will that distinguishes humans from the rest in its journey through this world & the next. Love is the essential quality of the human reality. In nature it’s the force of attraction (electron spin) that is fixed - no choice.