INTENSE Christian vs Mormon Debate! A Latter Day Saint joined my Open Mic Debate Challenge and questioned me on what I knew about the Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints beliefs and doctrines, and he (TJ Hale, Halestorm) was confused at me for teaching people how to witness to Mormons and Mormon Missionaries.  We discussed topics o the Great Apostasy, the Restored Gospel, and looked at  Galatians 1:6-9 on Mormons having a false gospel, 1 Corinthians 15:29 on baptism for the dead, 1 Corinthians 15:40-44 on 3 different glories or 3 different heavens, Matthew 7:15 and Matthew 7:21-23 on false prophets, and Doctrines and Covenants 84:17-22 on Joseph Smith testimony of seeing God the Father in 1820 (according to him) and receiving the Melchizedek Priesthood Authority in 1829 (according to LDS) and how did Joseph Smith see God the Father and live without having the Melchizedek Priesthood Authority in 1820, and other things.

This was a respectful and intense debate and thanks to TJ for joining for a discussion, and I hope this video helps Christians on how to witness to Mormons respectfully and with boldness.

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Lord bless you,

Kelly

thank you so much for discussions like these

Great job Kelly 🙏 keep preaching the Gospel

Praise God for the freedoms of speech, freedoms of religion,  and other freedoms given by the Western society documents that we hold and defend dearly for today.

27:00 He added the "Telestial"  
The text says "Celestial, Terrestrial"  Nothing about a "Telestial".  
And the word "Terrestrial" in the greek, is literally "of EARTH" or "Earthly".  
It's not talking about another planet.  Not another glory off this earth.

Was this discussion on a Live stream? If it was, I really wished that I was in the chat. Kelly did really well defending his beliefs. Kudos Kelly!!😀😀

The issues going on in the early church are the same kind of issues we have in the current church. When you have an influx of new believers, they bring in a lot of false beliefs that need to be corrected through discipleship and becoming familiar with what the Scripture teaches. Some seasoned believers may also have some error(s) that need addressed. That is what you see Paul doing in his epistles. This was a brand new belief platform that Jews were being introduced to about Jesus being the Messiah and you can be saved by Him by placing all your trust for salvation in His shed blood to pay your sin debt in full. These were people that only had lived under the Law and now had to learn what living under grace truly encompassed. People today often have a difficult time to make the leap of self-works/self-efforts won't save worldview to that of God's forgiving grace.

One side keeps trying to silence, talk over, and belittle the other. That tells us all we need to know about whether or not that side represents the teachings of Jesus

For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.  D&C 84:22 (emphasis added)
Now, the first word to discuss is “this”.  What does “this” refer to?  The preceding verses state:
20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.

21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;
So, first, we need to understand that the thing that is required is the power of godliness, not necessarily the Melchizedek Priesthood.  In many cases they go hand-in-hand.  But not always so.  Second, we need to understand that this passage has multiple meanings.  Keeping them straight requires understanding the meanings in the context of the entire scriptures.
Many instances in scriptures tell us that the power of godliness is manifest without the mortals in question having been ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood in the common sense.  Earlier in the Doctrine and Covenants, we find out how.
For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh, except quickened by the Spirit of God.  D&C 67:11
I believe you’re confusion arises because this same exception was not repeated in Section 84.  Such Pharisaism is not what the Lord tailors His words to.  We are expected to search the scriptures diligently and live by every word that proceeds forth from the mouth of God (D&C 84:44) and then ask God if it be right (D&C 9:8).
To explore this quickening, let’s consider Moses’ experience when he was caught up into an exceedingly high mountain.  After the Divine interchange concluded, we read:
And the presence of God withdrew from Moses, that his glory was not upon Moses; and Moses was left unto himself. And as he was left unto himself, he fell unto the earth.  Moses 1:9
Then consider Joseph’s own experience in the Sacred Grove:
“when I came to myself, I was sprawling on my back and it was some time before my strength returned.”  1843 interview with David N White
The quickening spoken of in D&C 67 is what is commonly referred to as transfiguration.  Such Divine modification causes a temporary change in our bodies so that we are not “in the flesh” throughout the encounter.  It is the power of godliness granted unto mortals to be able to bear the presence of God.  Even with that, our mortal bodies are apparently not used to such demands, and we are left enervated.  In Moses’ time as well as Joseph’s, God quickened the mortal whom He chose.
In Moses’ time as well as Joseph’s, no authorized apostle or prophet held all the keys to preside over God’s kingdom on earth.  And in Moses’ time as well as Joseph’s, God chose a mortal without authority to become the first to be granted authority in each dispensation to act as His earthly representative.
So, now I ask, what is the priesthood?  It is the authority to speak and act in the name of God.  To be his earthly representative.  When the Lord calls His chosen prophet, He is by the very act, granting him authority to act in His name.  Being called as a prophet qualifies.  And Joseph was ordained to that calling prior to “seeing the Lord”.
…he heard the Prophet Joseph relate his vision of seeing The Father and the Son, That God touched his eyes with his finger and said “Joseph this is my beloved Son hear him.” As soon as the Lord had touched his eyes with his finger he immediately saw the Savior.   –John Alger’s testimony as told in the diary of Charles Lowell Walker
What I deduce from this quote and from what other accounts tell us about the first vision is that when Joseph said he saw “two personages”, there was something preventing clarity.  Perhaps the veil was not completely opened.  We can recognize that it was only after this anointing/ordination that he was allowed to actually see the Savior in clarity.
There is much we don’t commonly know regarding the First Vision.  And if we really knew all the story, I’m sure many more questions may be answered.  But we simply continue in faith based on what we do know.
Now about the multiple meanings:  If we read only a few verses out of context, we don’t get a full grasp of what the section is talking about.  Remember that the entirety of Section 84 is not about seeing the face of God, but about priesthood and ordinances.  What are they good for; and why do we have them?  Let’s read on:
23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.  D&C 84:23-24
Verse 23 is referring to a passage in Exodus
5  Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6  And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
7  And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
8  And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
9  And the Lord said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people unto the Lord.
10  And the Lord said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes,
11  And be ready against the third day: for the third day the Lord will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
Exodus 19:5-11
Remember that the entire D&C is written to the Saints.  Such messages must be looked at through that lens. The reference to Moses was given in this revelation to the Saints.  This washing, sanctifying, etc. refers to more than the physical sight of the Lord’s face.  It is clear to any endowed Latter-Day Saint that this is a reference to the temple ordinances, where we also “see the Lord’s face”.  And without the priesthood and the ordinances thereof, we are not permitted into the endowment ceremony.  To do so would bring down the wrath of God.
Now take this a step further.  What is the endowment really about?  It is a type and shadow of our final judgment.  At the final judgment, what does it mean “and live” (the other portion of section 84 that I highlighted above)?  By Alma’s words it means that as we “look and live” (Alma 33:19) we may receive Eternal Life.
Without the power of the priesthood and the ordinances thereof, we cannot learn to have the power of godliness manifest in our lives as mortals.  If we cannot learn to live with that power on earth, we won’t be able to learn to endure that power later.  Thus we cannot enter into His rest with the fulness of His glory and receive exaltation.
Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.  Alma 34:34
To sum up:
We cannot endure the sight of God as mortals without being quickened.  God will quicken the first prophet of each dispensation and ordain them at the same time.  Further meaning in the verses is tied by the context of the section with temple ordinances and the final judgment.
We obtain a hope in Christ by the items in the Fourth Article of Faith as well as other ordinances.  Then we live a life where the power of godliness is manifest consistently, that we may be prepared to look and live at the final judgment.  I pray we may all do so.

Getting cooked must mean something different than in the dictionary.  This seems like a wildly misleading label of our discussion and until now I was looking forward to a follow up discussion.

Yes I look at completely ignoring the role of Priesthood in the Bible and in the restoration a little differently than non denominational pastors and churches do.?

My counter question to this is: If no one on Earth has the priesthood in this dispensation, and God is going to give it to someone in the dispensation of the fullness of times (Back to Ephesians) what method would you consider acceptable if not the way Joseph Smith got it?  
The Bible tells us that prophets are coming. How will that happen and how will we know they hold the priesthood of God?  

-HaleStorm

Oh my! Christians spend their entire lives in ministry! Not just 2 yrs.

Oh my. The Mormon thinks the gospel is all that stuff they do. It is believing in Christ who died for us!

I think the baptism for the dead in context could mean baptizing people who are dead in their sins —why do that if there was no resurrection.

Wowww 🤣🤣🤣

The apostacy is simple and irrrefutably shown by the denial of ongoing apostleship and the denial of ongoing prophesy.

The example shown by the Galatians and others the Pauline writings continued.  Without an authorized interpreter to provide ongoing guidance, the believers drifted into their own desires and interpretations.

Which started the apostacy.

LDS teachings are like trust me bro just like Joseph Smith.

John the Baptist's authority (you could have added) came from the fact that he was a Levitical priest, prophesied by the Angel who appeared to his father, while in the temple to be Messiah's forerunner, and by Malachi and other prophets.

The “other gospel” is creedal Christianity

Another scripture on Baptism for the dead, is The Shepherd of Hermas, read as scripture during the 2nd cent., talks of Christ and his apostles preaching the gospel to the spirits of the dead and giving them the seal, which is baptism, thus baptism for the dead. (Apostolic Fathers, 2:263, Hermas, Sim. 9:16).
Different Christian sects did it, the Marcians, Montanists, to name a couple.
FOR the ritualistc type of Christ descent into hell and the resurrection, was baptism, (Eph. 4:7-10, 1 Pet.3:17-21, Rom.6:4, Col.2:12, 1 Cor. 15:16-32). Baptisms for the dead faded off to baptism of dead corpses, rejected by 2 Church councils towards the end of the 4th c., Hippo &  Carthage. It later became prayers, masses, and liturgical rites for the dead, good works for the dead done by proxy, where a living person would do good deeds to be  credited towards reducing the soul's time in purgatory. (Father F.X. Schouppe, S.J. Purgatory, explained by the lives and legends of the Saints, 1986, paper back ed.)

Later, those became the sale of Indulgances, paying the church to get your kin out of purgatory, or reducing the payer's time, and for future sins they wanted to commit, and not have to suffer in purgatory for. This, 16th c. Martin Luther, an Agustinian monk, later rejected and complained about. Protestants and Reformers after him rejected Indulgances, and works for the dead, while other Catholics, west & east continued doing them. In lore Baptisms for the dead became legendized into saying prayer formulas for water nymphs, water spirits believed to be the spirits of unbaptized babies that died unbaptized. The prayer would count as a baptism, provided it was done with good intentions and the right words in Latin said right. Even if said over the dead body of an unbaptized infant, it would count as a baptism: "In nomina patris et filii et spiritus sancti." (David Ayerst & A.S.T. Fisher, 1977, Records of Christianity, vol. 2, p. 214-16). Darell Thorpe, SHALL BE TURNED UNTO FABLES, rough drafts on Internet Archives).

Paul describes the gospel in 1 Cor 15:1, 3-4.  Joesph Smith's definition matches Paul's.  “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it”.  Also it's just a lazy argument.  If the angel preaching another gospel is assumed to be the angel Moroni, then please give the specific quotes from Moroni that would be considered another gospel.