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The Evolution of the Goy: From "Holy Nation" to "Gentile" | Prof. Ishay Rosen-Zvi

Kedem

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Welcome to KEDEM Channel! In this episode, I sit down with Prof. Ishay Rosen-Zvi (Tel Aviv University & Shalom Hartman Institute), this time to explore the surprising history and evolution of one of the most misunderstood words in history: "Goy." Today, the term is widely understood as a strict binary label for a non-Jew, a Gentile. But as Prof. Rosen-Zvi explains, this wasn't always the case. In the Hebrew Bible, Israel itself is called a "Goy Kadosh" (a holy nation). We trace the fascinating linguistic and conceptual journey of this word from ancient geopolitical descriptions to a strict binary distinction crafted by the early Rabbis, and the counter-intuitive role the Apostle Paul played along the way.

In this conversation, we discuss:

The Biblical Baseline: How the word "Goy" originally simply meant "nation" and was used to describe both Israelites and their geopolitical neighbors.

Ezra & The Returnees: How the returning Judeans in the 5th century BCE began drawing proto-sectarian boundaries around "true" Israel, separating themselves from the locals.

The Apostle Paul's Innovation: The surprising role Paul played in consolidating diverse ancient nations into a single, binary concept of "The Gentiles."

The Rabbinic Binary: How the Rabbis, following the destruction of the Temple, erased a complex spectrum of ancient identities (like Samaritans and God-fearers) to create a clear-cut "Jew vs. Gentile" divide.

The Ritual of Conversion: How the Rabbis formalized conversion as an instantaneous, binary leap across this newly defined conceptual boundary.

Modern Implications: A thought-provoking discussion on how holding onto a minority-survival mindset impacts identity in a modern, sovereign state.

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*About our guest:& Prof. Ishay Rosen-Zvi is a Professor in the Department of Jewish Philosophy and Talmud at Tel Aviv University and a researcher at the Shalom Hartman Institute. He is a leading scholar of Rabbinic literature and intellectual history. He is the co-author (along with Adi Ophir) of the definitive book discussed in this episode: Goy: Israel's Others and the Birth of the Gentile (Oxford University Press), which traces the profound conceptual shift in how Jewish identity was defined against the "other."

A direct link to purchase the book: https://www.amazon.com/-/he/Goy-Israe...

Chapters:
0:01:05 The Problem with the Word "Goy"
0:04:40 Isaiah: Vertical vs. Horizontal Distinctions
0:08:50 The Septuagint Shift: Ethne vs. Laos
0:11:15 Ezra and the Returnees: Redefining the Boundaries
0:18:20 Qumran and Sectarian Fences
0:21:20 Paul the Apostle: The Birth of the "Gentile"
0:30:00 The Rabbinic Revolution: Erasing the Spectrum
0:36:00 The Ritual of Conversion: A Binary Crossing
0:41:45 The "Goy" Today: Implications for a Sovereign State
0:45:45 Conclusion

Subscribe for more conversations with leading scholars in the Hebrew Bible, the Ancient Near East, and ancient history.

#Goy #Gentile #HebrewBible #JewishHistory #RabbinicLiterature #ApostlePaul #AncientHistory #KEDEM #Theology #Talmud

20 Comments

@KEDEMChannel Creator 6 months ago Pinned

Dear KEDEM viewers, hope you enjoy this episode. I have an important update, as well as some good news:

As you may remember, the 26-episode series “The Rise and Fall of Ancient Israel” with Prof. Israel Finkelstein and Dr. Matthew Adams was unfortunately removed from the KEDEM Channel following a YouTube decision. The good news is that I’ve made the full series available on our Patreon, and it’s open to both free and paid members.

If you’ve been following the series (or missed it), you’re most welcome to join as a free Patreon member so you can watch every episode at no cost (if you’re willing to become a paid member, that would make me even happier…). Your support helps me keep producing high-quality content and bringing you conversations with top-notch scholars in KEDEM’s areas of focus. Join here: https://www.patreon.com/cw/Kedem

Thank you for watching, for being here, and for supporting what I’m building with KEDEM. Yours, Alex

@olgabrill9301 1 month ago

Great interview! Thank you!

@amarosea 6 months ago

A great and fascinating episode that covers so much from history, socio-politics, geo-politics, theology to linguistics. When we honestly interrogate binaries (whatever kind) that are often taken for granted or thought to be unchangeing through time and space, we can unearth so many diverse layers of multiple ideas, beliefs, experiences, motivations, relationships and memories. And by doing that we can actually expand the boundaries of our current social and political imaginations and offer new alternatives and possibilities for being and belonging. I really enjoyed this conversation!

@moedodson4031 6 months ago

Thank you for your excellent interviews. So important.

@GunBudget54 4 months ago

Kedem, I hope your well! I miss your videos and can’t wait till you have time to make more.

@ji8044 6 months ago

Once again, another great video!

@waynesworldofsci-tech 6 months ago

Interesting as always. You get great interviewees. Thanks again.

@JerryWalz-h3p 6 months ago

This is very fascinating from a non-Jew. I have been studying NT and OT, and have to have done some critical text theory even with some of the Old Testament and this type of discussion helps a lot. Sometimes it appears that the Scripture makes more sense when some of it is removed, but at least breaking it down into "second Isaiah," or "third Isaiah." I would be interested in hearing more about the Book of Daniel with Professor Ishay Rosen-Zvi.

@Tubulous123 6 months ago

Thank you.

@cynthiajohnson7794 5 months ago

Fascinating.

@floridaman100 2 weeks ago

shalom

@mordechaimeltzer5932 6 months ago

Thank you

@02sweden 6 months ago (edited)

In northern Sweden, there was an expression that lived on until the seventies at least "goya", that meant "stir". You could preferably use it when talking about something that went wrong in politics or food preparation.

@nonomnismoriar9051 6 months ago

There was indeed some deep shift from the pre second temple to post temple period in how Jews viewed the others. Certainly not entirely negative or simplistic but its there. Was all of this due to simmering anti Greek sentiment Maccabean milleu that exploded during and after the Roman wars where this became the archetype? Even before the maccabees it seems a tolerant attitude towards other gods for other nations had been replaced by a more stringent universalist monotheism for good or bad (e.g. 2nd Isaiah)

@barc0deblankblank 6 months ago (edited)

Small correction: Λαοί is the plural of Λαός. It means “the populus”. In Greek, other nations can be interchangeably referred to as Λαοί or Έθνη. You can say “το έθνος των Ελλήνων” when describing Greeks in the abstract but with a national tone (which would emphasize cultural commonality) whereas “Ο Ελληνικός λαός” is descriptive of the greek population, as found within the boarders of Greece. Hence, the translation of Λαός is apt for describing the ingroup people, versus the Εθνος (nation) which would be a more abstract, but equally valid descriptor. If this is confusing, I’d be happy to elaborate further.

@michaelashanti548 6 months ago

I really enjoyed this discussion as a Goy?

@lisacawyer6896 6 months ago (edited)

Interesting discussion. I kept thinking of certain verses that predict Jews (or decendents of Abraham) to be a blessing to all nations. Some examples: Gen 12v3, Ps 67, Ps 86v9, Ps 96-98, Isaiah 2v1-4, Is 11v1-9, Is 49v5-6, and many other similar passages (I once compiled several pages of them). Paul quotes a few in Romans 15.

Of course there are many passages where God judges the nations, but not unfairly. The book of Jonah teaches that God is consistent with character, and will forgive even Gentiles if they repent.

So it made me wonder given the "othering" of Gentiles that you mentioned, how did the rabbis understand their responsibilities to the Gentiles based on verses such as the ones I mentioned?

Also, I pray for your protection in Israel during yet another time of trouble.

@JephthaKatan 6 months ago

What a great lecture! It seems, that Moses was used as the deliverer of a universal message. I would think the message is that being Jewish is a good thing and the message should be spread. But humans are essentially tribal and tend to fall back to tribal ways. You have your tribe and then everyone else is an outsider. We always have to remember that Ruth was a convert.

@bobobobfellerann4765 6 months ago (edited)

Great episode. Context matters: We need to understand that the rabbis who compiled the Mishneh weren't creating a catechism or summa. They were defining boundaries necessary for the survival of the Jewish people without either the Beis Hamikdash or any realistic or foreseeable possibility of rebuilding the Beis Hamikdash. The Talmud is "Torah in triage," survivalist Judaism of the long exile.

The second and more important point is this. The ultimate mission and dignity of the Jewish people is to be "a kingdom of priests." This isn't so that Jews can be served by the nations but so that we can serve the nations. Maybe you think that's a Jesus concept? So what if it is? He's obviously right.

Now, let me tell you a secret. Not one book of the New Testament was written for Jews. Jesus didn't write any books. Why? Because the Jews already have the Torah and it's good enough the way it is. Jesus himself said that: "Why should a Jew believe if I rise from the dead? Jews have Moses and the Nevi'im. Isn't that enough?" (see Luke 16:31; I'm paraphrasing a little). The New Testament is written as a charter for the Gentile Church so that they may follow the "Spirit of the Torah," without needing to follow the "Letter." To the Apostles, a Jew should follow the spirit and letter of the Torah. A Gentile should follow the spirit without needing to follow the letter.

Christianity is essentially a more advanced, impressive and convincing version of the Noahide Laws. So it's a critical guideline if Jews are ever going to realize their mission and dignity to serve the nations as a kingdom of priests. We'd have to wind back the clock and try to pick up where Peter, Paul and John left off. Because a few things got mixed up after 64 and 70 AD (btw, BC/AD are correct usage for the Gregorian calendar).

The Talmud isn't built for the realization of the Jewish mission in the world, but to enable the Jewish people and Jewish idea to survive. But to restore the 13 tribes and to elevate all the nations on earth? The Talmud isn't built for that.

And, sadly, neither is the Zionist atrocity known as Israel. You can't serve the nations by bombing them and assassinating their leaders and leaving their societies disordered and dysfunctional. We need to understand that as Jews, we're meant to be a city on a hill, a shining example, teachers, guides, brothers and friends. That's the opposite of what's been happening.

The way things are going, Israel won't survive much longer. We can't be children of Israel and act like children of Pharaoh and Babylon. That's not who we are. We can't survive it. We need to get back to who we are.

@CharlesJ007 6 months ago

If a people are forced to convert to Judaism, they might resent this, but have to comply. They might comply with Judaism publicly, but in private, still worship canaanite gods and practice canaanite rituals.

Perhaps that is what Josephus meant by half-jew: a distinction between public and private.