Coleman, a point often left out of this conversation was that many Arabs emigrated to the Mandate to benefit from a growing economy spurred by Jewish land and business ownership.  They literally flowed in to work for Jews.   They completely and dishonestly omit this historical fact of cultural symbiosis.  Similarly they ignore many Jewish achievements in the land such as taming the swamps, eradicating malaria, and greening the desert.

The other ignored topic is literacy.  Jews were literate and organized and poised to be an administrative state.   Few nations have ever had that much legal preparation in the international community.  

Meanwhile, Arabs were illiterate and couldn’t even properly record the historical events of the time.   So much of their narrative is undocumented falsehoods.

If Palestinian national aspiration means having a country that is entirely free of Jews, then I don’t believe that it is a valid aspiration.  Both the League of Nations (unanimously ratified by 52 countries in 1922) and the United Nations effectively sanctioned the existence of a Jewish national home.   Does there really need to be a 23rd Arab state free of Jews?  It’s not a valid aspiration.  

Even now this is the defining point of the conflict.  Jews are willing to live with and alongside Arabs.  Whereas Arabs seek the complete expulsion or annihilation of Jews.

Before 1948, both Jews and Arabs were described as Palestinians. The Emir of Mecca in 1919 even referred to Jewish refugees as Palestinians returning to their 'sacred and beloved homeland'. And before 1921, it was the Jews who were most often referred to as Palestinians, including by the Arabs, who identified as Arabs -- their allegiances were shaped by their tribes and clans, not a national identity (that came later, inspired by the Arab imperialists with the help of geopolitically aligned Soviets.

So many people desperately want this issue to be boiled down into something that can fit in a TikTok video. They don’t want to take the time to understand the nuance and complexity. We need to keep having these conversations even if it upsets people.

00:00:00 - Introduction to the Arab Revolt of the late 1930s
00:01:02 - Oren Kessler's background and interest in the 1936 Revolt
00:04:15 - Navigating objectivity in writing conflict history
00:08:35 - The term "Zionism" and its modern relevance
00:11:58 - Comparison with the Partition of India
00:18:11 - Debunking the idea that Jews introduced terrorism to the region
00:23:13 - Perspectives on Jewish immigration and Arab opposition
00:30:19 - Jabotinsky’s "Right against Right" perspective
00:33:32 - Outcomes and political gains of the Arab Revolt
00:36:20 - The 1939 White Paper and British withdrawal
00:39:40 - Distinct Palestinian identity and its historical roots
00:47:23 - The role of Arab Christians in the mandate period
01:00:50 - Current views on Gaza and the prospects for peace
01:03:42 - Challenges of disarmament in Gaza

One thing I never see mentioned is that many Arabs, in addition to Jews, also emigrated to the British Mandate of Palestine. Everyone assumes that the Arabs were already there and that only Jews immigrated, but that's not true. More than half of the Arab population of the British Mandate were also migrants and arrived at the same time as the Jews, and that's never mentioned.

32:37 never heard it put that clearly and succinctly before!

Again thank you Mr Hughes for putting your tremendous , brilliant clarity into this extremely complicated situation. I'm a huge Douglas Murray fan , but your right there in terms how honest and unbiased your podcast are . I digress I mention Douglas Murray because he has a way of getting his point across without using cheap debate tactics or emotions . And the calm brilliant way you approach each and every issue is truly inspiring to me . Truly thank you . Your a beacon of light in these dark times .

I'm okay with a two state solution as long as we recognize the formation of Jordan in 1946 was the first state.

‏‪10:34‬‏
Beautiful thought Coleman

Mr. Hughes, would you be so kind to post a list of the books on your bookshelf behind you?
I have a nice library and would love to add more to it.

Great discussion!

The Arabs called the 1948 war, The War of Extermination.
When they failed to exterminate the Jews they called it the Nakba.

The Lebanon analogy is really insightful

Such a superb informative conversation.

Brilliant discussion. Thank you, gentlemen.

You're going to need more than an hour to answer this question 😬 keep up the great work!

I am not always a fan of Mr. Hughes, but he is an undeniably intelligent commentator and this particular conversation was fascinating.

This interview answered many of the questions floating around in my head.....Thank You! I will put this book on my reading list!

I've often cited the Pakistan/India situation to the partition of Palestine. I am usually met with blank stares or the claim that it is not similar by the crowd that sees Israel as a colonialist, oppressive entity. I think this is due to the entrenched stubbornness of the anti-Israel crowd that refuses to acknowledge established historical facts, because they will argue that historical 'fact' is a conceptual ploy of the evil white oppressor Europeans.
That is one aspect, but another, more alarming part of the myth that Israel is an apartheid state is the weak, inept podcast hosts who soak up Bassam Yousef's nonsense that Arab Israelis do not have the same rights as the Jewish citizens, which, of course, they do, as do the Druze and Christian Israelis. The very fact that the Dome of the Rock, also known as the Al Aqsa mosque, which is the holiest of holy sites for Jews, has eight entrances that Muslims can use, but Jews can only use one entrance and are not allowed to pray there, speaks to the rights that the Arab population does have, not only equal rights in Israel but exceptional rights. Jerusalem is the holiest city for Jews, and there is no other. The Muslims' holy cities are Mecca and Medina; Jerusalem isn't even mentioned in the Koran.
The expulsion of Jews from North African countries, in which Jews had a presence going back two thousand years, in 1948, is rarely, if ever, made known. When it is, the claim is that the Jews were a 'pull' exodus, meaning it was a positive as opposed to the "Palestinian" being an involuntary push. Nonsense, Jews in North Africa lost their homes, businesses, and bank accounts as they were only allowed to leave with one suitcase and a limited amount of money. Moving to Israel wasn't on their to-do list.

What I find particularly disturbing is that UNRWA, the UN relief agency, is exclusive to the Arab peoples of Palestine. The UN offers no other refugee population this exceptionalism; no other expelled people from the many war-torn and/or partitioned countries look upon themselves as refugees even one generation down, let alone four generations removed.

P.S. I wish Coleman had not referred to the Arab people in the British Mandate as Palestinians, as there was no such national identity. The identity of being a Palestinian people didn't even come about until 1964, when the Arab League formed the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). Before then, a Palestinian was understood to be a Jew, and Arabs identified themselves as Arabs.

Coleman is pretty new to me, and I'm so glad i found him!