Where's your stance on the Celtic Woman phenomenon? (High Kings, Celtic Thunder etc.) ... Love it? Hate it? Let's hear your thoughts.

As ever, you’ve made a fantastic, helpful, thoughtful video, where you ask great questions and provide solid answers. Thank you!

As soon as you hear Mary Fahl, formerly of October Project, all of your Celtic woman CDs will go right out the window.

Irish-American here. My family assimilated completely when they came here, and refused to pass down much of the culture at all, so mine and my parents generations have just had to cling to whatever we could find. So I've grown up with compilation albums of traditional Irish songs (some more traditional than others). In addition to those, I was absolutely obsessed with Enya when I was a pre-teen, then Celtic Woman not long after. For Celtic Woman it was the violin playing + dancing that amazed me the most. There are some songs I heard first from Celtic Woman that I later found traditional versions of that I liked better. Celtic Woman ain't traditional, but they did offer a good introduction, luring me and others into wanting to learn more. I think part of it is because as a youngster, the spectacle of it was more appealing than the substance. Once I grew up I cared more for substance.

Another great video, and I agree with your take on these kinds of groups. I just wanted to chime in on behalf of American musical taste. I'm a member of our local Comhaltas group here in Utica, NY. We do our best to play authentic Irish music at our gigs and sessions. And we get a good number of people in the audience. Many other communities in North America have Comhaltas groups also quietly doing the same.

These acts were part of my intro to Irish and Scottish music. (The first part was some instrumental Celtic cassettes from Barnes and Noble.) When I want to hear trad, I go to the Irish pub in Nashville. No matter the marketing, it is undeniable that all the artists in these groups are exceptionally talented. My only regret is not attending their live shows sooner.

I went to saint Patrick's day parade, they were wearing kilts and playing Scotland the brave on bagpipes, they have no idea what Irish culture is 😂

McDonalds has top of the line chefs that design food that will be engineered to be consumed by the masses. Sounds like that crossed with Simon Cowell's boy band engineering.

Unexpectedly, I was very moved by the idea that what is sold is "recieveable belonging to Irish culture". I grew up abroad but have been lucky enough to visit family most years and keep my parent's accent. I am however only too familiar with the aching and longing for connection and belonging to Ireland. Like grasping for a part of yourself that's both plain as day and just out of reach.
As much as I may have mocked them, I feel for dreaming our forefather's home as much as the next plastic Paddy.

Great video, thank you.

Awesome video, Ronan, and a very nuanced breakdown. My own take is that all music should have the right to exist: if people want to mix trad with pop spectacle, why not?

The problem is when it’s sold and presented as an authentic image of Ireland’s trad music. I think most people’s idea of “Celtic music” is closer to the fairytale Celtic sound of Celtic Woman, or those “2 Hours of Relaxing Celtic Music” playlists on YouTube: very soft, inoffensive, and pleasant soundscapes that are 30% derived from trad music, with the rest derived from cinematic and classical conventions.

It’s easy for many people to say they love “Celtic music”… until they’re confronted with the extreme melismata of sean-nós, which they often reject as sounding too “oriental” and not fitting their concept of Celticness, or with Highland bagpipes blaring melodies that have no pretty harmonies and chords underlying them, only a static, piercing drone.

In world music, there’s often a phenomenon of audiences valuing the concept of authenticity, then rejecting the truly authentic reality because they have access to an alternative that provides the illusion of cultural depth but doesn’t actually require any of the adjustment and acquired tastes that cultural depth demands. Acts like Celtic Woman doubtlessly make beautiful art, but they do also contribute to that phenomenon.

It’s a bit like Disney’s adaptations of European folk stories. They have their own inherent value, but that value just isn’t the same as that of the living traditions of folklore and storytelling in Germany. To conflate Disney’s Snow White with the actual folkloric reality of Germany would be where the mistake lies.

I am an Irish-American and retired violinist/music teacher who self-taught traditional Irish music mainly by ear from the Chieftains. I never liked Celtic Woman. Most of my friends did and they never understood why I didn't love them. They just seemed to fake to me. It never felt authentic. Same with Riverdance. It was all just marketed Irishness for Americans who are very proud of our Irish heritage but know little about it. I thank you for putting the right language to it for me. Highly produced. Actually, quite over-produced. But hey, it's America and a lot of Americans love the glitz and glamour. I enjoy your channel. Too bad it wasn't around when I was still able to play. I had to retire early due to multiple disabilities I developed. Keep putting out thoughtful, insightful, and informational content. Especially the historical ones. Love those.

Celtic Woman was my introduction to Irish music and it was amazing seeing them live. I have gotten deeper into the Celtic rabbit hole with time and have been able to appreciate the more authentic and traditional music. I think they are wonderful for what they’re meant to be, but I do hope more of their listeners feel inspired as well to dig deeper into this beautiful culture!

I've always considered it a genre of Kentuckyrish, based on its Venn with US country music listeners.

Although this kind of polished, orchestrated stuff is not my thing, I am glad it exists as an introduction to Irish culture for many people around the world. The 1st glass of an intoxicating seduction that never ends.

As an Australian with distant Irish ancestry in this penal colony I'd call this music Cop Irish.

That was a very interesting deep dive. Thank you. For the record, I’m an American (though I’ve lived in the UK almost 30 years) who grew up in Detroit with Irish grandparents.So I grew up with that American sort of Irish identity. But I discovered Planxty, the Dubliners, De Danann, and more Irish music on my own and that’s what I love. Celtic Women and that style of music to me is too produced, too plastic for my taste. What I wonder though is if American - Irish is it’s own culture now, different from Irish culture? It’s been around a long while and has it’s own characteristics and traditions (of a sort). A lot of folk in America identify as Irish without knowing anything about Irish history, just the very sentimental sort of a sound. It may not be to my taste, but that doesn’t make it any less valid.

I admittedly prefer Clannad or Anúna to Celtic Woman, but I still listen to Celtic Woman sometimes. As someone who fell in love with Irish folk because of the Clancy brothers and Tommy Makem, it would be a bit off of me to take issue with them 😂

I personally like the quieter intimate versions of many folk songs ( although the Celtic Woman group is undoubtedly talented and I do like a few of their songs). The idea of authentication of identity is really interesting. As a Canadian with Scottish and Irish background I can very much relate. For me listening to folk music from the maritimes here very much carries the genealogy of Irish and Scottish music while still feeling like raw un-corporate talent that is evolving and relates to real people's lives. Actually got into listening it to it more after a video of yours about the Newfoundland diaspora.
What you were saying about the cultural intricacy being scrubbed out is a great point. I'm currently learning Irish in order to better understand Irish songs and poetry . That's part of why I prefer a more "authentic" version

Celtic thunder  is an another example of that aswell particularly when they performed in kilts.I don't think its harming  anything in terms of the tradition ,if there is a market and we are in control it its not a big deal.

Good  commentary   here  .  As  an 80 yr  old   trad payer   who remembers  other days  I still  differentiate  between those of us who are amateur  and  what I would  describe as  commercial  players  who do so for a living .   What  I received in the tradition  was  free and so  is it  usually. passed  on .