Correction: at 13:43 I said that my great grandpa lived in Montreal and spoke English. My dad, who knows the family history better than I do, just informed me that he was fluent in Québécois French as well as English.
It turns out that it was his dad (my great great grandpa) who first moved to Québec in 1892. They ran a general store in St George de Beauce. By the time he moved to Montreal, he was fluent in French.
I’m not sure if this story interests anyone else, it’s a long way from the movie we started discussing. But it’s very interesting to me. I just learned the Vineberg family has a deeper connection to Québec than I thought.
I guess I have no excuse anymore for not being fully fluent in French… tabarnak! 😂
Many people come to Montreal for just opportunitic reasons without making any effort to learn the language and show interest to the local culture. That is the big problem
As a Franco Quebecois, I don't expect visitors to speak French. It's nice if they do - a few words go a long way if you're going to meet people or order something at a restaurant - but not necessary. However, if someone lives here for years and wants to continue living here, they should learn French. We are the only unilingual French society in North America. There's 50 states, 9 provinces and 3 territories for people who want to live and work solely in English.
If I moved to any country and planned on living there, I'd learn the language. I definitely wouldn't move to Italy, live there for years and not try to integrate by learning the language. It'd be silly.
A lot of anglos in Quebec - especially in and around Montreal - have this intergenerational entitlement that they shouldn't have to make any effort to learn French. This entitlement is generally associated with a very hefty dose of condescension. Every video about the place of French and English in Quebec - even when it's marginally related to the video - has tons of comments from Anglo Canadians being extremely hostile towards Quebec and dismissive of Quebec culture: Quebecois French is some kind of abomination that's not "real" French, the Quebecois have no culture, Quebecois are Nazis for asking them to learn French, etc., etc.
As for this movie, I will watch it because I want to form my own opinion. It may be that the movie is very good but they chose a bit of a ragebait approach with their trailer, who knows.
I went on a road trip last summer to to BC and we stopped to this dinner in Saskatoon and our server realized we were speaking french and asked us if we were from Québec|Montréal (I am but my parent lived in Northern Ontario) and went on to tell us he was moving to Montréal because he was accepted at McGill. Of course I congratulate him! told him he was lucky and that I was sure his parents were proud of him (My parents didnt had a clue why he was so happy to tell us that, I needed to explain to them the McGill was a ''big'' deal in Canada) Anyway after our lunch he asked me if i though he could find a job in Montréal. first thing i asked him was ',how your french?" and he told me he knew a couple of word mostly ''tabarnak, criss and so on" the usual and i told him that he would have a hard time being a server or any customer facing job. That people dont mind english speaking customers, but they do mind english speaking (only) service representative, i told him if he didnt speak french he might find a job but to be prepared to have way more ''difficult'' and unhappy customers then usual just because he couldnt serve them in their native language.
Moi aussi je te suis depuis des années sur YouTube. Ton ouverture à la culture québécoise est admirable même si je trouve qu’elle reste surtout périphérique. Tu sembles circonspect à bien des égards à l’idée que la langue commune à privilégier soit le français au Québec. Ceci étant dit, comme tu saisis bien les défis du fait français en Amérique, je continue de te suivre avec intérêt, surtout lorsque tu choisis de parler ouvertement et librement de ces questions. Dan Vineberg est Québécois aussi et tu ne devrais pas t’empêcher de le clamer haut et fort.
I watched your video a few days ago and it keeps popping up in my mind because it reminded me my "incursion" years in the english community of Montreal as a different world. I am french speaking born and raised quebecois. It was a shock to me to discover that many english speaking people could not and would not speak french (québecois) in the work place. I am making a very long story short. I am deeply disapointed that my fellow canadians, especially those living in Quebec are not "proud" of our two languages reality. Je suis très fier que vous parliez "québecois" . Cheers
J'aime bien ton accent quand tu parles français. Ton analyse est très intéressante je comprends que la situation est complexe que les francophones au Canada ressentent un pression anglophone Je trouve que c'est tout à leur honneur de veiller à défendre leur culture ce sont des gens adorables et admirables. Quelque soit son origine si quelqu'un vient dans un pays parce qu'il l'aime et qu'il a envie de s'y intégrer ça se passera bien autrement il est normal que ce soit problématique.
All comparisons being bogus, let's take Portugal as a comparison. Why Portugal? Population is 10M. Quebec is 9M. Very similar. They are their own sovereign country, but are realistically very insignificant within Europe. Would anybody move there and expect everybody to speak english? Would you move to Türkiye and not speak turkish? That's what irritates people AND feeds the sovereigntist movement. People feel they would get a different expectation from people if we were a country. It's probably wrong as well, but that's part of it.
That being said, the dialogue is probably pretty accurate. Part of the two solitudes... Those who are not curious and keep within the english community would have this kind of dialogue. I understand this is not your case. Also, Montréal is not the whole of Québec.
J' adore tes vidéos et j' aime tes réflexions sur la cité......also I can't wait to see the movie... I'm convinced it's a love letter to the city and a period of time that molded what the city is ... aussi le Mile END ça fonctionnait des deux côtés de la bouche... français e et english.
Dison que ce segment de film révèle une total déconnection avec les gens de la places les québécois et l'environnement sociaux démographique qui va avec. et réduire ça a dire : ( pourquoi ils m'haissent. )Oh je sais pas revoit l'Histoire du Québec et du Canada peut-être.... et la dynamique entre anglo et francophone et voilà la réponse.
Hey Dan great video I appreciate your takes as always! Just FYI if you went to school in English anywhere in Canada you are considered part of the historical English community and you are entitled to government services in English in Quebec.
Well said , even Canadians do not understand that Canada is a federal bilingual country where language , culture are provincial matters . And that the only official bilingual province is New Brunswick
Yes, in Quebec there are laws to protect the French language, and at work French is generally required to be the main language. The Charter of the French Language (Bill 101), strengthened by Bill 96, states that French must be the normal and primary language of the workplace. Employers must operate in French with employees, provide work documents in French, and ensure that French is the language used in internal communications. Companies with 25 or more employees must register with the Office québécois de la langue française and go through a francization process to ensure French is properly used at work. Other languages like English can be used when necessary, but French must remain the dominant and standard language.
As an Anglo from BC who lived this life in the Mile End, this is too bad. Everyone in Canada knows the difference between a French (France) and Quebecker. This could have been an opportunity for a real explanation in the movie. Like he could have asked her to distinguish what she meant by “French” people. It’s important, not just for the Québécois and all the minority groups. Lost opportunity, but I’m still looking forward to watching this. Edit: I learned French while living here and I’m actually frustrated at the lack of resources the government provides for learning “Quebecois”. Like no local channels have correct subtitling, people compliment my French but it’s been pulling teeth to get the past “school” French to “street” French.
I don't see why people are offended. Some anglos who move to the Quebec province might be self-centered thinking they can live in Montreal only with English, it might be possible, but you are limited in every way. It is true that you will be more likely to get a job if you are bilingual. Now even just french is not enough, you would need both to get an interview, but french is kinda obligatory. People who run a business might be scared to get reported for not offering french service if you are working alone and only speak english. Big cities like Montreal and Toronto attract people like that who come in for the opportunities and are not planning to settle there. I think that's why they don't bother making an effort to get to know the culture. They are making the experience horrible for themselves. It's the same in LA, NY, Paris... If I moved to Mexico for some time, I'd try to learn a bit of spanish even if it's not perfect, you learn by practicing.
1. When you arrived here, you were barely speaking French. Today, you are almost fluent. You made incredible progress.
2. On day one, you made a commitment. It was clear in your mind that learning French was not an option. You made a lot of efforts and today it pays off.
3. New comer from the rest of Canada are not, for most, the caricature described in the movie. Alors, les francophones qui vont voir ce film, prenez le pour ce qu'il est: une caricature.
4. According the new law, you have the right to be served in English because you have received your primary and secondary education in English somewhere is Canada. That opens the doors to you for public services in English as well as it opens public education in the English school for your children.
5. What will make French speakinf Montrealers angry is not the English speaking artist who arrived here one or two years ago. No. It is the arrogant English CEO who proudly says that he lived for more than 20 years in Montréal and never felt the need to learn some French.
Funny because I am doing the total opposite. I have been learning French very strictly for 6 months. I am from Toronto and lived in Little Italy, then Little Portugal, Dundas West for 10 years. I love Toronto but I have always loved Montreal so much that it never left my mind with areas like le plateau and mile end, so I am moving there in the next 2 months. Im in my 30s make good money self-employed working from home but I don’t want that to stop me from speaking French first as best as I can when I move there. Montreal was always my end goal, unlike the people talked about in this video who leave Montreal for something “better.” For me, Montreal is the best haha.
Moving to Montreal as an English Speaker
Dan Vineberg
3,988 views
Thoughts on the new movie Mile End Kicks, and the language situation in Montréal, Quêbec, Canada.
It turns out that it was his dad (my great great grandpa) who first moved to Québec in 1892. They ran a general store in St George de Beauce. By the time he moved to Montreal, he was fluent in French.
I’m not sure if this story interests anyone else, it’s a long way from the movie we started discussing. But it’s very interesting to me. I just learned the Vineberg family has a deeper connection to Québec than I thought.
I guess I have no excuse anymore for not being fully fluent in French… tabarnak! 😂