When Narcissism Comes to Church | Chuck DeGroat on Spiritual Abuse and Healing
Shepherd's Heart
8,003 views
➟ ➟ Narcissism in the church is one of the hardest things to name, especially when the pastor looks godly on Sunday and something still feels deeply wrong. In this episode of Shepherd's Heart, Stewart and Alycia White sit down with therapist and author Chuck DeGroat, who wrote "When Narcissism Comes to Church," for an honest conversation about spiritual abuse, church hurt, and what real healing actually looks like.
Chuck has spent more than twenty years doing psychological assessments of pastors and leaders. He explains why narcissism is a spectrum and not just a label. He shows how to tell the difference between a leader having a bad day and a genuine pattern of harm, and why rushing to call someone a "narcissist" is rarely the most helpful place to start. He also shares the warning a seminary professor once gave him that changed the course of his life and his marriage.
This is a conversation for anyone who has carried church hurt they could never fully explain, or quietly wondered whether their leader is actually narcissistic. There is a path toward healing, and it starts in a different place than most people expect.
What we cover in this episode:
➟ Why a "safe shepherd" is the real mark of healthy leadership
➟ The difference between abuse and the trauma that lingers long after it
➟ Why healing is "not microwavable" and what genuine change actually requires
➟ How forgiveness and justice are not the same thing
➟ What almost every narcissistic leader has buried in their own story
➟ How to discern real harm from a one-off mistake
"I'm never working with a narcissist. I'm working with someone who bears the image of God." - Chuck DeGroat
CHAPTERS
00:00 Personal growth and self-discovery
05:57 Using Milan Clinical Inventory
06:59 Discussing narcissistic personality traits
10:59 Examining Saul's leadership flaws
14:21 Narcissism and self-protection in therapy
17:40 Understanding vulnerability and self-protection
21:53 Assessing pastors' future challenges
24:37 Focusing on impact over labels
28:39 Discussing psychological diagnoses
33:44 Starting Point for Healing Trauma
34:23 Creating a safe space for healing
39:15 Recognizing signs of a panic attack
40:44 Importance of addressing physical needs
45:16 Shifting to a more grounded life
48:00 Seeking justice and healing
52:01 Reflecting on grace and forgiveness
54:31 Contact and Social Media Info
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Chuck DeGroat is a therapist, professor, and author of "When Narcissism Comes to Church" and "Healing What's Within." He co-founded the Soul Care Collaborative and teaches at Western Theological Seminary.
Website: https://www.chuckdegroat.net/
Soul Care Collaborative: https://www.soulcarecollaborative.com/
His books:
When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse: https://amzn.to/4oV9mNr
Healing What’s Within: Coming Home to Yourself--and to God--When You're Wounded, Weary, and Wandering: https://amzn.to/4y0mXaI
More Books: https://www.chuckdegroat.net/books
If this conversation helped you, please like, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs it. Hit the bell so you never miss a new episode on faith, healing, and discernment.
CONNECT WITH SHEPHERD'S HEART
Facebook: Facebook: ShepherdsHeartShow
Instagram: Instagram: shepherdsheartministries
#ChurchHurt #SpiritualAbuse #Narcissism #ShepherdsHeart
Keywords: narcissism in the church, narcissistic pastor, spiritual abuse, church hurt, Chuck DeGroat, When Narcissism Comes to Church, healing from church hurt, narcissistic personality disorder, toxic church leadership, spiritual abuse recovery, biblical discernment
20 Comments
She died never knowing the truth! Feeling like a failure....How sad!
Biterness has three different meanings & MUST be interpreted in culture, context, & original language. 💯
Bible; (Proverbs 8 & 9).
“Lady wisdom verses Lady Folly”.
A trap set for the innocent which resembles something good!
A good read for anyone.
There’s a reason why the title (Fool) is often applied towards this kind of behavior. Or, for the saying, “If it’s too good to be true, it’s probably not”!
If you are or have been under the influence of a Narcissistic Pastor, or psychopathic members ,I would love to talk to you and pray for you.
When Narcissism Comes to Church | Chuck DeGroat on Spiritual Abuse and Healing
Shepherd's Heart
8,003 views
➟ ➟ Narcissism in the church is one of the hardest things to name, especially when the pastor looks godly on Sunday and something still feels deeply wrong. In this episode of Shepherd's Heart, Stewart and Alycia White sit down with therapist and author Chuck DeGroat, who wrote "When Narcissism Comes to Church," for an honest conversation about spiritual abuse, church hurt, and what real healing actually looks like.
Chuck has spent more than twenty years doing psychological assessments of pastors and leaders. He explains why narcissism is a spectrum and not just a label. He shows how to tell the difference between a leader having a bad day and a genuine pattern of harm, and why rushing to call someone a "narcissist" is rarely the most helpful place to start. He also shares the warning a seminary professor once gave him that changed the course of his life and his marriage.
This is a conversation for anyone who has carried church hurt they could never fully explain, or quietly wondered whether their leader is actually narcissistic. There is a path toward healing, and it starts in a different place than most people expect.
What we cover in this episode:
➟ Why a "safe shepherd" is the real mark of healthy leadership
➟ The difference between abuse and the trauma that lingers long after it
➟ Why healing is "not microwavable" and what genuine change actually requires
➟ How forgiveness and justice are not the same thing
➟ What almost every narcissistic leader has buried in their own story
➟ How to discern real harm from a one-off mistake
"I'm never working with a narcissist. I'm working with someone who bears the image of God." - Chuck DeGroat
CHAPTERS
00:00 Personal growth and self-discovery
05:57 Using Milan Clinical Inventory
06:59 Discussing narcissistic personality traits
10:59 Examining Saul's leadership flaws
14:21 Narcissism and self-protection in therapy
17:40 Understanding vulnerability and self-protection
21:53 Assessing pastors' future challenges
24:37 Focusing on impact over labels
28:39 Discussing psychological diagnoses
33:44 Starting Point for Healing Trauma
34:23 Creating a safe space for healing
39:15 Recognizing signs of a panic attack
40:44 Importance of addressing physical needs
45:16 Shifting to a more grounded life
48:00 Seeking justice and healing
52:01 Reflecting on grace and forgiveness
54:31 Contact and Social Media Info
ABOUT OUR GUEST
Chuck DeGroat is a therapist, professor, and author of "When Narcissism Comes to Church" and "Healing What's Within." He co-founded the Soul Care Collaborative and teaches at Western Theological Seminary.
Website: https://www.chuckdegroat.net/
Soul Care Collaborative: https://www.soulcarecollaborative.com/
His books:
When Narcissism Comes to Church: Healing Your Community From Emotional and Spiritual Abuse: https://amzn.to/4oV9mNr
Healing What’s Within: Coming Home to Yourself--and to God--When You're Wounded, Weary, and Wandering: https://amzn.to/4y0mXaI
More Books: https://www.chuckdegroat.net/books
If this conversation helped you, please like, subscribe, and share it with someone who needs it. Hit the bell so you never miss a new episode on faith, healing, and discernment.
CONNECT WITH SHEPHERD'S HEART
Facebook: Facebook: ShepherdsHeartShow
Instagram: Instagram: shepherdsheartministries
#ChurchHurt #SpiritualAbuse #Narcissism #ShepherdsHeart
Keywords: narcissism in the church, narcissistic pastor, spiritual abuse, church hurt, Chuck DeGroat, When Narcissism Comes to Church, healing from church hurt, narcissistic personality disorder, toxic church leadership, spiritual abuse recovery, biblical discernment