What’s Your Favorite RPG Gameplay Loop? Let Us Know, Down Below!

I like professor DMs approach ... the dice is only used when an element of chaos is required.

I'm DND, you do not HAVE to mechanize everything like investigation, perception, hiding, etc. The players have the freedom to say how something happens. The rolls are there just to add randomness when the story needs it.

I'm not sure with your examples you were actually talking about gameplay loops, as opposed to how mechanics change the feel of gameplay loops (And also got into fruitful voids for some reason?)

I'd also note that there are very few games with just one gameplay loop - Maybe Rock Paper Scissors. At the very least most are going to have a gameplay loop within the game itself of what people are doing from moment to moment and the larger loop of what they're trying to accomplish. And you did hint at this towards the start and then when you got into your examples completely forgot it). And I don't think 'more loops = better' or even 'more loops that interact with each other = better' but there are players who are looking for that, and players who are very distinctly not looking for that.

The core gameplay loop of... The vast majority of group TTRPG I've ever played (I don't think Parseley, Cheat Your Own Adventure, or Microscope, quite have the same core loops for example, but this is true for most of the games I play is "People talk about the fiction, both in and out of character, progressing the fiction as they do ["The Conversation" I think is how this is normally termed] -> Mechanics are invoked due to the conversation -> Mechanics are resolved -> The conversation resumes with the updated fictional situation due to the mechanics" - And those 'mechanics are invoked' might be a simple resolution check, a combat if there's a subsystem for that, or anything else that might be done by the system you're playing.

And then within that 'mechanics are invoked -> mechanics are resolved' part of the loop smaller loops (such as combat in a game with a combat subsystem such as D&D) might exist, while that core loop exists within larger loops (Levelling is a loop in D&D, Pathfinder, etc: Update your character for your new level -> Play the game -> Reach a new level -> Update your character for your new level - Play the game is doing a lot of lifting here but it's where the other loops exist within, and obviously different systems and tables will do reach a new level via various means creating different incentive structures.) - The sessions can also be seen as being loops, as can campaigns (This is even more explicit in games with 'start of session' and 'end of session' mechanics)

For D&D's combat? Turn Starts -> Action/Move/Bonus Action happen as applicable -> Turn Ends -> Next Turn Starts would be the loop (with occasional reactions) which exists within a wider Comabt Starts -> Turns happen -> End of combat loop. The 'roll to see if you do anything and maybe roll damage' that you described isn't the loop, it's part of the Action/Move/Bonus Action step of the loop.

The distinction between D&D and PF2e I wouldn't say is the loops - Although the combat loop is a bit different due to the 3 action economy - But the details of the steps within those loops. How 'update your character for your new level' works and then interacts with what you do in the Combat Turn loop, rather than the loops themselves.

One crucial aspect of the gameplay loop is that the players really define what it is. If they treat everything like a game of monopoly, then it’s a game of monopoly and that’s not a bad thing unless you didn’t want to play monopoly or you dreamt of being different to monopoly.

In fairness, monopoly’s creator was anti capitalist so they definitely would be unhappy with the current state of affairs with monopoly.

My gf is not a gamer and she had absolutely no idea what to do with my original game and honestly, she did better with it than I anticipated… she wanted a completely different experience and I wasn’t able to accommodate it.

Fictional Void a.k.a. Negative Space. The OSR prides itself on its capacity to handle gaps in the 'rules'. For example, none of the basic equipment in the OSR has any rules, yet us Old Heads have dozens of viable applications of the top ten items in a backpack (rope, oil, caltrops, powder, pitons, candles, etc).

All dice in the world have an internal "pool" of numbers that they can roll a limited number of times. It's rare for a nice to "run out" of a specific resulting roll, but it does happen. When it does happen the dice can no longer roll that number again. So yes you wasted those nat 20 rolls. Use that dice for Dragonbane from now on. Just be careful that if you run out of all numbers the dice can roll it explodes and can deal massive damage to everyone present... or none at all... it's a bit random that way.

Statistics works that way after all.

Playing with people who don't know the game is a great suggestion for learning the game.  As I am doing testplays, inexperienced players are the ultimate litmus test of whether the design crisp enough.

Great video and definitely important to think about gameplay loops when GMing, but I disagree on the point about Pathfinder 2e being focused on combat. That largely depends on how your GM runs it and how the players choose to act. I'm running a Thieves Guild adventure right now where most combat can be avoided and its usually a REALLY good idea to avoid getting into a fight (because that causes a lot of noise that alerts the guards). The system has plenty of mechanics and support for non-combat challenges and solutions.

One must imagine Dicephus happy.

Creator of Carry-On here! Thanks for featuring us, and for sharing the excitement we've been stockpiling during development. Definitely writing "chili-pot strongman" down in my character idea notes...

As a math enthusiast, those 3 nat 20's were not wasted, but they were definitely spent. Charles' day was improved in 3 invisible ways.

Your video was really helpful, having random people playing your game is always good. I didn’t think about that if you had the same people playing you would play a certain way. Thank you.

23:20
This is why that one video game Highguard failed. They didnt open test it and everyone who tested was very competent at it.

Dice have souls and statistics exist but they are distributed unevenly among all people, so you get some people that the upper end that always roll good and some people that always roll bad.  Some peoples luck is scarified for others.

I'm prepping for a game during lunch today, but have my interaction as a down payment until I can come back and watch the rest of the video.

You guys should cover Goblinz. Only the demo is available (for free) but it is a very different system.
A strange 2d6 system. Wounds system. Crafting.
A classless system with 2 skill trees for Combat and Roleplay.
(Apparently a 3rd skill tree coming called the Artisan skill tree)

One aspect of a gameplay loop is that there are multiple nested loops that each have a particular feeling. A campaign has its own loop, and so does each session, each scene, each round, and even each turn.  A good game should make sure each of these feel satisfying.

Sometimes you want the Player to make the decision.
Sometimes you want the GM to make the decision.
Sometimes you want the decision decided by chance.
The GM needs to decide who makes each decision but the nice thing about DnD is the Player can choose when to make a decision. They can add to what the GM is doing by randomly adding action decisions or content decisions as the game progresses. While the GM should be making most of his decision before gameplay starts. So I feel like the best way to make the game more fun is for the GM to encourage the players to randomly add their action and content decisions at appropriate times throughout. And for newer players, this will mean to prompt them from time to time on the mechanics of PC interactions in-game.

The enjoyment of the game depends to 2 factors. One is having a good GM and the other is to have good Players. If that dynamic is not there then the game mechanics will not be fun.

8:00 One problem I can tell right away is the problem with Meta Gaming. So rather than playing the "Character" and their skills, you are playing your skills as a player with the given attributes of the character attributes. What I mean by this is that you, as an experienced player, will enter the game with a given character and know all the best ways to play that character. You already know what spells you will be using, you know that you will be investigating things. You know the best weapon combinations you like. And this is the true RPG Gameplay Loop that is the worst part of DnD. The original ideal of the game was to play the game as though you are that character. It is no fun that the "Player" knows the best way to play a 1st level character to advance and collect as much loot as possible. No, to be a more exciting game, you need to come into the game with a 1st level character and try your best to act like you are a newbie who doesn't know how to equip and use their items. Just like a 1st Level character is new to adventuring and makes mistakes. Maybe select weapons, spells, and items at random as though you don't know what any of them are.  Suppose a 1st level Wizard shows up to your party and he has magic spells only for creating berries or a 1st level Warrior only has a dagger for a weapon and a sling for ranged weapons. That's when you make the game fun. 90% of the mechanics of DnD are never used because everyone always choses the best options available. It shouldn't be that way.

10:30 That even goes double with like you describe Dagger Heart. If it is just about telling a story then if you use the same gear and same weapons all the time then the story never changes. Sure you make slight changes here and there but no real authentic experience here. When you put the same characters in a different story, isn't it really just the same story. Imagine if you had Seinfeld characters in Star Wars instead of Luke Skywalker or Han Solo? Isn't it really just Seinfeld? Remember when Family Guy did these silly skits? It was fun but you knew you were watching Family Guy and not Star Wars. The key to good games is variety and that seems to be lacking today.

11:10 A good example here. "If you know your character has the ability to help the king then you want to do that." Yes, these are Meta things the player knows about the character. Typically a person does not know the exact value of their abilities and skills. We would rank things along the lines of poor, bad, decent, good, great, or expert. But even an expert will say "I do not know for sure I can save the king. But I will do my best since it seems no one else here would be better suited for the task." For instance, a character would naturally inquire of the establishment, "Don't you have people here to deal with the king? We have urgent business elsewhere." Nobody is going to help some random king because they are all corrupt and oppress their people. People either feel that way about him or they just fear him. One of the two.

You got to remember that there are 2 variables in Game Play that can never change. That is who the GM is and who the Players are. Typically you are going to have the same GM every night and he will play it the same way over and over. And for the players, they too have quirks of personality they can't change but in both cases you can do random things to spice up the game play to a whole new level.

Most of the benefits of negative space can be worked into positive rules, with player ingenuity being worked into the resolution as bonuses. I've never seen hide rules that don't specify that the hider has to find something to conceal themselves behind, btw.

L5R mentioned. Have you guys played it yet. I love it. My group wants me to run extra sessions.

It really depends on what type of narrative game you & your crew really want to play.
If you want down & dirty well Mork borg maybe what you’re looking for.
If you want a bit more staying power then a type D&D might be what you’re style.
Or if you’re mostly into telling stories that don’t depend on dice rolls as much the Dagger Heart maybe your style.
None of these is really better then the other you just have to find your niche.