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How the Sexual Revolution Brought Us Tradwives | Interesting Times with Ross Douthat

Interesting Times

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The growing alienation between men and women is, to my mind, one of the biggest stories of our time.

It’s warping our politics and culture through the rise of misogynistic influencers on the right and a growing sense of feminist despair on the left.

My guest this week believes that our problems today can be traced back to the sexual revolution. She argues that it reset relations between the sexes in a fundamentally negative way and ultimately benefited men. Louise Perry is a columnist for The Wall Street Journal’s Free Expression section and the author of “The Case Against the Sexual Revolution.”

00:00 - Intro
01:28 - “The Case Against the Sexual Revolution"
16:20 - What is reactionary feminism?
21:30 - The effects of the digital revolution on men and women
30:29 - The tradwife phenomenon
34:58 - Imagining a new sexual culture
43:38 - Can female emancipation and sexual restraint coexist?

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com.

Read the full transcript here: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/25/op...

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20 Comments

@JamesStrock 3 months ago Pinned

Thank you for excellent discussion. It's unusual to have the opportunity to listen to two smart people working through arguments and seeking to learn and inform themselves and their audience--rather than categorize and stigmatize and curtail free discussion in an effort to impose viewpoints.

@ETFacetime 3 months ago

appreciate you sorta pushing her for more discussion on practical solutions. For a lot of these issues, it seems talking about the problem has replaced actually attempting to solve them. Great conversation!

@Cajundaddydave 3 weeks ago (edited)

This is one of the most thoughtful and interesting NYT interviews I have seen in 10 years or more. A genuine in-depth discussion and dialog that I believed had vanished. Bravo!

@TheMangyCalf 3 months ago

Byung-Chul Han writes about the culture of permissiveness as a system of control and, well, I don't think he is your dude really, Ross, he hits that nail hard as does this guest.

@cocoacrispy7802 3 months ago

Regarding the 'New Statesman' Survey, one in four female Britons wake up filled with rage, and cannot understand why.
However, as the same survey shows, women who live in societies with strong family structures, genuine community and lower social media consumption, like Finland, are happier.
Not because they have fewer rights, not because they are oppressed, but because they were not told that everything around them is the reason they feel bad. Because gender equality was built on top of community, rather than in its stead.

@loonshkij 3 months ago

Excellent interview. This could have been a series of interviews, and I would certainly welcome them. This could have been a series of interviews because there were so many important issues being discussed. As a second wave feminist in her 70s I kept waiting for the stipulation that diminishing women's legal and civil rights (yes, down to the right to wear string bikinis on Australian beaches) should not be in question. Discussions of contraception and dating culture are all very well and good, but we cannot go backwards on women's rights and freedoms. I say "cannot", but in fact there is a movement that proposes just that. The freedom to bake sourdough if you choose is one thing, but the right to vote is entirely another.

@dionwall5519 3 days ago

Since research keeps showing us that children thrive best when they grow up together with their own mommies and daddies, there must be a way to teach men and women to be good spouses and to be content with reasonably good spouses. There are all kinds of questions of family economics, child care and individual adult desires that can go a lot of directions, but we at least have to.find a way to encourage trusting and trustworthy relationships between parents.

Great interview!

@bmccameron7642 3 weeks ago

The tired old trope that men, particularly adolescent and young men seek casual sex has persisted as an overused myth. Drive is strong, but the goal is ultimately a secure, enduring relationship...at least in my case. Married 30 years, 3 grown children. We've supported each other to pursue higher ed in adulthood, realised our dreams together and as individuals. Anyone that attempts to describe marriage as some sort of prison...dismiss and ignore them. That can and often is their reality of their own making.

@roberthatcher1224 1 month ago

I teach in university and social justice was a lens for my graduate work. I've seen how men have changed their behavior, in the light of "me too" (especially the last 10 years) and I wish this was acknowledged more. Not all men, but many have significantly changed their behavior toward women.

@notloki3377 3 months ago

Funny how Ross smoothly makes the radfem argument better than they do playing devil's advocate. Truly the Time's strongest soldier.

@christianhume7618 2 weeks ago

What an EXCELLENT discussion! These matters are not as simple and as straightforward as some people would have us believe. Thank you so much for treating this topic with the seriousness and sobriety with which it should be treated!

@Ash-vf2gd 3 months ago

great interview

@susanpasarow2680 3 months ago

I've been saying this for years! Thank you for being a voice of reason!

@jjclauslegos1999 3 months ago

Louise Perry was one of the few sane and balanced voices that helped me as a single man re-orient my values before and during 1.5 years with my girlfriend, here's to hoping we can figure the modern world out together!

@brnd_star04 3 months ago

What a beautifully refreshing conversation on a topic i have always found so interesting, yet polarizing, and for sure infuriating.

@BoogieOTH 1 month ago

Am I crazy or is it criminal to not have Louise Perry's name written in the title and barely in the description on this upload?

@chickenlittle829 3 weeks ago

So refreshing and thought-provoking for this ancient feminist who joked she was the oldest virgin at the University of California in 1967.

@FunholeFilms 3 months ago

0:23 think whats funny to me is how seriously people take it when these influencers say shit like “im done with dating” when I guarantee you they still hook up and date around. By “im no longer dating” they usually just mean like… a 3 month break for sure

@pizza611 3 months ago

I love the blue pictures on the wall, where did those come from?

@eternalbear1135 3 months ago (edited)

One of the main problems is a truly bizarre misunderstanding of reality and what people really want. No one is actually independent and no one really wants to be.
We are incredibly interdependent-relationships are essential to survive, develop, find happiness and be truly human.
What we all need and want is to be able to find and walk our own path-one that contributes in some meaningful way to others.
We need to completely throw out the word independent when it comes to these topics. It is doing immeasurable harm.