Jedi is the best wow youtuber rn

Jedi's videos are so great, glad to see more people getting to know about him.

my favorite sopranos YouTuber talking about my favorite video game, what a time to be alive

Great chat, I hope Jedi puts out a video going in depth on his thoughts of classic +. Maybe talking about what he hopes carries over or doesn’t carry over from SoD. Or maybe a compilation of unfinished content ripe for exploration. As far as new content goes, I understand being cautious because it really does depend on the current team’s ability to stay true to the classic recipe. Which I think is hard for even avid players to agree on.

I had my mind blown by the level 12 paladin quest in elwynn the other day because it gives you such an interesting hook into westfall with a pair of dwarves trying to bring proof of the defias to the thing

33:46 AMEN. It got really bad in Legion (and, to some extent, in WoD before it). Every expansion up to MoP had parts of zones that weren't covered by any quest and were there just for exploration and maybe to use for something an expansion or two down the line. That's the complete antithesis of "set piece" subzones like modern retail WoW has.

I just remember Legion very vividly being the moment where I went "Whoa. Every single inch of every subzone of every zone is either covered by a main story quest, a side quest, or a daily/World quest. There is literally no part of the map to explore in this expansion that you won't explore just doing all the quests - except flying blindly out to sea...." I just remember it so clearly because it was such a depressing moment and realization.

Horde quests were created last, so they are more streamlined. Just tons of densely packed kill & loot quests.
Alliance is dense with deeper lore that weaves a story about the Defias and Onyxia thru the entire 1-60 experience. Alliance has deeper world building and atmosphere 1-30, but their quests are far less optimized with more low xp breadcrumb quests and fewer kill/loot quests.
Experienced levelers can make a route Alliance-side that is just as efficient, but Horde is easier and drowning in more quest options from 1-30.
Hopefully C+ fills the game in with more quests where they're lacking.

Blizzcon is sept 12-13, not November like Kino said. Its 5 weeks away!

Actually going out is pure forsaken experience.
At least as a servant of the royal apothecary society.

What is this some sort of crossover episode?

I knew you loved great art with the sopranos but I didn't know you also loved wow.

Jediwarlock is also really cool in how they see all the small puzzle pieces in every zone

27:35 How?! Point to something specifically that EVER said Illidan was a bad guy with evil intentions from a non-biased PoV character. (No, A'dal does not count as it is very biased and had its own .) The entire story of TBC was us making assumptions. Kazzak opened the portal, not Illidan. Kazzak was not affiliated with Illidan in any way. As a matter of fact, the most recent lore we had to go off of was TFT, which ended with Illidan retreating to Outland to muster his forces against the Burning Legion.

We invaded his realm, we started killing his lieutenants and soldiers without asking any questions, and we started the fight between the Horde and Alliance expeditions and Illidan. He never sent any invasion forces to Azeroth, nor did he pursue us as we travailed through Outland. The demons who were openly hostile to us in Outland at the Forge Camps were part of the Burning Legion (who we already knew Illidan was against and definitely not allied with). Altruis' quest line specifically calls this out. Yes, Illidan's lieutenants were hostile to us, but that was after we already showed we weren't interested in any conversation or dialogue with them. (Or, in the case of Kael'thas, because he had grown disillusioned with Illidan, gotten very power-hungry, and began a plan that would crumble what was left of Outland into dust.)

I will be the first to admit there was a point where the lore got silly and can no longer be considered "classic" WoW storytelling. But that point wasn't until near the end of Legion, frankly. Writing off lore from Cata, MoP, etc. (when it was still being written by many of the same people who wrote Classic and TBC) because it didn't happen in the first 6 years is somewhat absurdist to me. I mean, let's not pretend the same exact people wrote Wrath that wrote classic. Yes, many of the same people were there, but it wasn't the same team. Ergo, by your own logic, you should not be considering anything that TBC or Wrath adds to the story, either, and should not consider those expansions to be any part of "Classic WoW" just because they were released within 4 years of WoW's launch. It all seems a bit arbitrary to me. I draw a distinct line at the Argus storyline myself, which was a huge 'jump the shark' moment and something that classic WoW devs (Metzen included) said would never happen. It just didn't fit the story and what had previously been established. Wrath into Cata, however, was literally more of the WoW storytelling we had grown to expect, albeit maybe with a couple more cutscenes (something they had already been using to great effect in Wrath and received nothing but praise from the community for doing.) Just because the world changed, doesn't mean the game or the storytelling did.

No offense, I'm enjoying the conversation and I love JW's videos. I comment on them and have small conversations with the dude in the comments all the time. Please don't take this as overly aggressive, I'm just pointing out some flaws in the logic of 'only WoW, TBC, and Wrath are classic WoW' mindset.

P.S. - By the by, I feel compelled to point out that there is a huge difference between retcon'ing something and re-contextualizing it. Remember that retcon stands for 'retroactive continuity', which means that something we actually saw is no longer canon and treated as if it didn't happen. Re-contextualizing something is merely adding in the 'why' behind the story where there was no story previously. Sometimes the two can become intertwined (such as with the Jailer in Shadowlands), and I think that's where re-contextualizing gets a bit of a bad rep from.

MY FAVOURITE SOPRANOS SLOP CREATOR WITH MY BEST WARCRAFT YTBER

Best soprano YouTube and best classic wow YouTube in one video!

Crazy take from the get-go, but I will say that at the very least the Undead Leveling Experience is pretty cool. Silverpine, Hillsbrad, Arathi are so memorable to me, but you eventually gotta zone hop to Desolace/Barrens/Ashenvale which might break the sense of continuity for people.

But oh well. Eventually exploring the Plaguelands as a Forsaken (or Human, for that matter, or even a Blood Elf) just hits different.

I wonder if Pure Kino fucks with Bionicle?

Enjoyed your podcast, Cheers Kino & JediWarlock
EDIT: 34:00 You talk about Shady Inn incident. I love how Blizzard pulled this story out. You gather pieces of information and clues to get whole picture. From horde side quests and even alliance we learned inn was burned by Grim Totem and Magharta is resposible for this. She even tries to kill young Bain and take his place in Thunder Bluff because she does not agree with peaceful direction Tauren take. She wants to fight Alliance.

EDIT2: You talk a lot about classic has slow pace in combat. I disagree. Combat in Classic is more tactical. In retail you just steamroll every mob without any consequence to your life/mana or other resources. In Classic on other hand, game makes you think about tactic how you approach the fight with certain mob. With proper gear and talents fights with mobs are actually fast paced. If you screw up, game punishes you with slow fight when you end up with low HP. If you do it right, you end up almost full and can continue to pull next mob right away. For example I level my warrior with many talents in arms talent tree only took 5% crit from fury. If I encounter melee mob, I use my 2H sword to overpower it. If I encounter caster, I swap to 1H+Shield and again, I overpower mob because I don't let it cast anything. This is just one example how to approach the game. How you pull the mob, what abilities and gear you use, it actually matters in Classic. Also you talk about pulling more mobs than 2 and you die. That is not completely true. Again with proper gear you can kill 3-4 mobs. You just have to use pots, elixirs and other consumables to buff yourself. This is often stuff that many players underestimate. Classic is about every minor advantage you can get. Eat your food for HP or mana buff, use elixirs to buff your hp, armor, dmg, use sharpening/counter-weight stones or oils for spell dmg or mana regen. Everything helps.

55:00 Arguably it could be said that many of those 'expanded roles' for classes in SoD were because they were originally intended to have the ability to fulfill that role, but it was cut during development. Shaman and Warlock tanks, for example, have ample evidence and credence from the original devs that they were supposed to be a thing.

I think most of the SoD extra abilities were really cool and actually did fit Classic WoW - but it was their balancing and the numbers which did not. I would even go so far as to say I have no real problem with versions of abilities from up to and including Cataclysm being included in a Classic+ build. I may be in the minority, but SoD spoiled me - without some extra way to play the classes, a Classic+ is not going to hold nearly as much interest for me. (Then again, I am a bit biased as a devoted warrior main. So, yes, I would love to see Bladestorm in some version of classic - and I still maintain Gladiator spec is one of the coolest ideas any dev ever had for WoW.)

53:32 He said, clearly not playing a warrior above level 20 in Classic. XD

Seriously, I heartily disagree. It's because combat is so meaningful and every button you press is of consequence that combat in Classic is actually quite fast-paced. Due to the nature of how the combat system and mechanics work in classic WoW, one has to be thinking ahead and in branching paths.

By contrast modern retail WoW's combat is so lowest-common-denominator easy that it is a complete joke unless you are on the hardest difficulty settings, which, of course, fractures the player base (especially now that they're introducing Mythic zone and world boss difficulties) - and that makes it feel extremely slow. Sure, it might look like a spectacle, but it's all flash and no fire.

Love the usual argument that Classic's slower pace allows you to connect to the world better, while retail... somehow doesn't? There's nothing stopping you from playing retail at the same pace, the only one rushing through quests, not reading dialogue, or engaging with the story is you. This glaze is so stale.