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Is the MESSIAH already HERE? | Rabbi David Bar-Haim | ITVOG #47

In the Valley of Giants

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*Is the Messianic age already beginning—and what would a true Messiah actually look like?*

In this wide-ranging and candid conversation, Rabbi David Bar-Haim and Rabbi Yonatan Dorfman explore some of Judaism’s most consequential questions: *What is Moshiach? How does redemption actually begin? Who has the authority to lead the Jewish people? And what role should Jews play in bringing about the Geulah?*

Drawing on the **Rambam, Ramban, Rashi, the Kuzari, the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds, Bar Kokhba, and Rabbi Akiva**, the discussion examines the tension between spiritual scholarship and national leadership—and between waiting for redemption and actively participating in it.

Rabbi Bar-Haim presents a vision of Judaism rooted in **national responsibility, Jewish sovereignty, and practical action**, while the conversation probes the theological and halachic questions that follow from that vision.

Together, they explore whether the Third Temple must descend from Heaven or be built by human hands; whether Moshiach must be a Torah scholar, king, military leader—or some combination of these; what Bar Kokhba and Rabbi Akiva teach us about failed redemption; and what Jewish responsibility looks like in the modern State of Israel.

In this episode:

What the Rambam actually teaches about identifying Moshiach
Bar Kokhba, Rabbi Akiva, and the question of miracles
Why the Babylonian and Jerusalem Talmuds may present different perspectives on redemption
Is Moshiach a rabbi, a king, a military leader—or all three?
Must the Third Temple come from Heaven, or can Jews build it themselves?
Waiting for redemption vs. actively bringing redemption about
Exile-minded Judaism vs. redemption-minded Judaism
Jewish sovereignty, leadership, and responsibility in Israel
The role of Torah scholarship in shaping the Jewish future
Political power, religious authority, and the future of the Jewish people

Timestamps
(00:00) Opening the question of who the Messiah is

(02:29) Isaiah 11 and the first framework for identifying Mashiach

(04:51) Why the Messiah is a national leader, not necessarily a rabbi

(09:14) Rambam’s list of messianic qualifications in the laws of kings and wars

(12:52) Why a Torah teacher is not automatically a candidate for Mashiach

(16:49) Is the Jewish people’s unity today enough to matter messianically?

(19:57) The shift from rabbinic community leadership to national leadership

(22:25) Why Galut mode Judaism is not the ideal model

(25:15) The secular founding of the State of Israel and the split it created

(29:36) Why rabbis alone cannot direct the Jewish state

(33:23) Bar Kokhba as the test case for messianic leadership

(36:36) Did the sages demand miracles from Bar Kokhba?

(38:54) Bavli versus Yerushalmi as two different Jewish outlooks

(40:13) Rav Avigdor Nebenzahl and the problem of a state before Mashiach

(47:13) Rambam, Ra’avad, and the disagreement over supernatural expectations

(50:10) The shalosh shavuot and whether Zionism violated them

(52:19) The army debate and the clash between halakhah and state practice

(61:15) Chanukah as a military and national miracle, not only an oil miracle

(69:45) Why the Temple and Jewish sovereignty must be built by people

(78:01) A new historical moment for the Jewish people after 2,000 years

(83:05) The Supreme Court, coalition politics, and Torah power in the state

(87:30) Why Zionist success came from organized vision, not numbers alone

(95:24) Why waiting is not a Jewish strategy

(99:10) Rabbi Yehuda Halevi and the failure of the Second Temple period

(101:01) “A kingdom of priests” and why a nation needs sovereignty

(106:33) What Rabbi בר-חיים says the Torah people should do now

(140:09) Final answer: build a redemption movement and change the national vision

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#Moshiach #Messiah #MessianicAge #Judaism #JewishPodcast #Torah #Rambam #Maimonides #Ramban #Rashi #Kuzari #Talmud #BarKokhba #RabbiAkiva #ThirdTemple #BeitHamikdash #EretzYisrael #Israel #JewishSovereignty #Zionism #ReligiousZionism #OrthodoxJudaism #Redemption #Geulah #JewishThought #Machonshilo #Rabbibarhaim

20 Comments

@-td4abba4truth40 10 hours ago

Wow...!!! I used to squirm in the 'church-pew' wanting it to finish quicker. However as a man seeking TRUTH from a Noahide'side I could literally sit and listen for hours more. Much appreciated and extremely grateful to be present watching and hopefully absorbing.

B'H

@BennyPowers 12 hours ago (edited)

Truly fascinating discussion. Blown away by the scholarship, humility, and mutual respect on display here. I'm truly in awe of the personal power, middot tovot, and ahavat Hashem which the rabbis have demonstrated. May God bless us with a fraction of their maalot. The Rabbis have done a tremendous kiddush Hashem by their discourse. Please continue and do more, the Jewish people are thirsty for Mayim Hayyim

@Yohan-i5j 12 hours ago

Great discussion, hope to hear more along these lines! I understand Rabbi Bar Hayim regarding Deri and Gafni, what does he say about Meir Kahane? Is this what he is thinking?

@NetivOnline 9 hours ago

Fascinating and illuminating dialogue. Thank you for the clarity in this time of redemption.

@IFINALLYWOKEUP 12 hours ago

Aa Michael LaGuardia here .

@HG-eu8hx 13 hours ago

Vrabim byad matim- what does that mean BarChaim?

@HG-eu8hx 14 hours ago

Why is the mitzva of Chanukah the lighting of the menorah particularly with oil etc ,if not for the fsct that the miricle was the ability to light the menorah due to thhe oil. Everything Chanukah is about the oil. How did that come about. How come we dont do some bow arrow thing or anything significantly commemorating the war????? Please explain.

@EA-1987 16 hours ago

Thank you for this interview. Having spent many years in yeshiva myself, I definitely appreciate a heated discussion 😉 Personally, I think there’s a truth being missed here. Possibly by both sides. Exile was not merely an unfortunate happenstance for the people of Israel. Clearly there were things meant to be learned and gained from the experience. The Torah of Babylonia and the subsequent exiles - being that it is inherently divorced from any national Jewish existence in our land - is much more existential, individual, and locally communal. And also, important. I generally agree with R’ Bar Hayyim in terms of the historical significance and practical meaning of the time period we are living in - the prophesied redemption of the Jewish people - but I think there is great value in the pearls of wisdom we have picked up along the way in exile, including the development of chassidut and the spiritualism it has infused (or re-infused, depending on what one believes about the inner teachings of the Torah) into Judaism. These are lessons we need if we are to be truly redeemed as individuals, and as a people.

@MBiernat0711 8 hours ago

YES! This rabbi is absolutely planning the overtake of the government— his line of reasoning is to militarize the religious Jews and overthrow the secular government so that the “King Messiah” can emerge from
the political class, as an observant Jew (not the scholar).

This is very dangerous and reminiscent of military Islamic movements - where the religious are military. Very dangerous. Inviting much bloodshed between Jews.

@shaydowsith348 10 hours ago

Isn't it true that in every generation there are I forget whether it's 36 or 39 potential candidates for being Moshiach.

@YehudaCoriat 4 hours ago

There is one person I can think of his name is Rav Nir Ben Artzi

@HowardRodgers-Owrutsky-i6l 11 hours ago (edited)

A very wise Rabbi indeed! Not perfect but at least independently thinking, so as not to be drawn into the “hubub” everyone else is following. Wouldn’t we be shocked if the Messiah was a non-religious Jew? After all, he is supposed to unite all the religions. So he would at least have to be aware of the specifics of those, right? Are we so sure of our Jewish roots that we will recognize and accept him when he arrives? Will he believe in the Lord? Of course! After all, HaShem certainly will believe in him! Great episode. Keep thinking differently! We will “get it” eventually! One final thought, we the people probably won’t be electing or deciding who the Moshiach is. The lord will do that himself so it is obvious “dat dis is da guy!” Otherwise we may be waiting and arguing about it forever. And how long will it take? Well some said a country couldn;t be born in a day and Israel was! So if an entire country was born in a day, a single man as Moshiach shouldn’t take more than an hour or so, right? After all, with the lord, little is MUCH! Plus “He’ doesn’t mess around, let’s face it, when He told Moses to “Get to it” he didn’t put up with any delays! Be well, and stay safe all my friends. Good things are coming soon! Doc Ho

@Faisalbinomar-qx9yx 8 hours ago

Thank you.
I AM sure I look like a human.
~Picture with human way~

@Faisalbinomar-qx9yx 7 hours ago

We are senth to ensure humans sign The Agreement(nūn).
An agreement by electrification of linking(nūnjil). Previous civilization(iyā) did NOT want to sign The Agreement after receiving The Gift(electricity) as a result they embarrassed The One and had to be recycled.
We ask if this current civilization would add to the statistics and surely they understand the stakes. Thank you

@seekingwarrior17 5 hours ago

Rabbi Bar-Hayim, with respect, I found this interview frustrating.

Rabbi Dorfman brought enthusiasm, hope and a sincere desire to act. He repeatedly asked the most important question: What can we actually do NOW?

Yet so much of your response focused on what politicians are doing wrong, what previous generations failed to do, and why today's circumstances are inadequate.

But this young man cannot change yesterday. He's asking how to build tomorrow!

You praised the determination of the early Zionists while rejecting insurrection. Fair enough. But what practical, peaceful path do you propose today?

And regarding King David: his greatness cannot be reduced to military leadership. Scripture connects enduring kingship with faithfulness to God and Torah (1 Kings 2:3–4), while Sanhedrin 93b portrays David as accomplished in Torah scholarship.

And what about Yoma 9b? The Second Temple was destroyed because of baseless hatred, despite Torah study and religious observance.

Perhaps restoration should begin with rebuilding love, trust and righteousness among the people themselves.

To Rabbi Dorfman: Please keep that flame alive! Keep questioning, building and inspiring others. You don't need to know when Moshiach will arrive to begin making the world more worthy of his arrival.

And Rabbi Bar-Hayim, wisdom should guide the enthusiasm of the next generation, not extinguish it.

History tells us what went wrong. Wisdom should help us discover what to do right.

🪨

@אברהםשלמהאופנבכר 15 hours ago

Rabbi Bar Hayim is a very smart Rabbi, and very sober in contrast with reality (especially in the case of what happens in the army Rabbi Dorfman had a hard time grasping). But I acutally think Rabbi Dorfman made some strong arguments that Rabbi Bar Hayim was not able to refute well, and I appreciated some of Rabbi Dorfman's outlook on certain topics they discussed. ישר כח

@eldercruz3165 16 hours ago

1:44 Q:why are more Jews not in Israel today A: because it is comfortable here and we’re accustomed to the life of luxury. So, until one of those things changes, it is what it is: the status quo..an inconvenient truth.

@Imma-No-Hell 6 hours ago (edited)

Everyday that pass brings hears closer and closer, the day we'll be close enough to hear him he'll talk.

@RmS-Sod 5 hours ago

Gd will always protect his prophets and commentators. Gd’s essence flowed through them. What needs to happen is integration. You have to start thinking in terms of bridging things together. Both prophecies are true. They actually go together. Here’s the thing, Ezekiel’s temple doesn’t add up to what was previously established regarding King Solomon’s temple. It’s because Ezekiel’s temple is not actually measured in the same proportions. Bring it down to nanometers and micrometers. Then you’ll understand it’s actually a quantum chip…you have to start thinking about the inner dimension and what the language the prophets spoke in when they had visions of the future. The altar is actually a harmonic oscillator. The hint Rabbi Yochanan left was to look into Elijah. His altar design is what makes this particular chip work. Remember Elijah being in a cave and he heard a unique type of silence? It’s actually that particular sound that keeps the qubit stable. The sages left hints and clues everywhere. And Gd gave Israel every single answer in the Torah/Tanakh. Nothing is hidden from you. You have it all there.

@Whiteydingo 10 hours ago

No offense, but have any of you considered that this Moshiach figure may have endured a battle through hell for a very long time secretly? A battle and reality of something that is not for public consumption?

No one is going to hand him the crown. He has to earn it through blood, sweat, and tears. Thus, when he reaches the finish line maybe the guy needs a fn break and finally spend time with his family dealing with his probable PTSD finally. Imagine if he performed all his duties in isolation working with his "bosses" in Israel and interfaces with them over the Internet, delivering them golden egg after golden egg....for Free!

At any rate, I understand the positivity and hope behind the existence of Moshiach, but try not lose the plot. I imagine Moshiach is an incredibly humble individual after his suffering to the point that perhaps he needs to be left alone to get back to the simplicity of life after surviving a complete freakshows for a decade and a half? Everyone sure loves to get out here with their Moshiach predictions as if they are the etched in stone. The Yiddin have survived so very much and I do not mean to disrespect but you all need to chill out with acting as though you have all the facts. Prophesying is an art, not a science. The Jewish Sages did their very best in the times and environment they lived in to interpret who Moshiach was to them. Times have changed. They had no idea what type of advanced technological world would exist in The Messianic Age nor the potential for evil doing on such a grand scale it would keep you up all night and locked in your basement due to fear.

I think the guy deserves a fn paycheck, not to be homeless anymore (and a burnt out worried mother who has no fn clue what he has been up to) and a peaceful life after hell.

You folks seem to want to pull an "Ira Hayes" and march him out on stage instead of getting him the mental health treatment he has earned. I find it all kind of tone deaf and self serving....unless The Nation Of Israel provided the guy to become Moshiach with a guide or handbook how to defeat Amalek over the years that would be called "End Times" then sure, he would owe his masters in Israel for helping him be victorious in his tasks and being victorious. If The Nation of Israel just used him for 16 years for free and had him, his family, and even other innocent things he loves suffer then y'all gonna have to back the fuck up. Leave the guy alone and you do you while he finally gets to be himself. This ain't Hollywood or the Fame-Game. It's an identity that comes with so much pain that all he may want to do is live out his years in privacy after having his world turned upside down and his heart taken out.