Kpop not being analyzed is lowkey so unfortunate, the genre is so expansive and experimental, both the good and bad, I wish there was more Stan’s discussing the musical side of it outside of its pop culture/parasocial moments (even though those can be fun too)

that last point you said about title tracks being the only thing that matters is so true. so often you see people on twitter or reddit complain about kpop not being good anymore or a specific artist not being good anymore, and it's like ok clearly you're not listening to full albums or outside of the few groups you follow

I remember that some months ago, i criticized txt's sanctuary comeback because the lack of length affected the quality of the music and how Big Hit should actually give them songs and not snippets.
Well, someone replied that i should stop hating on txt and that they made such a big effort and that i was disregarding their effort because i was asking for longer songs. You can really no criticize the music without being called out cause this people really don't have a line of idol criticism and music criticsm and it's frustrating because kpop is such and interesting genre that deserves to be analyzed and company's should be called out when they give their groups horrible songs

If aomeone criticizes kpop i feel like they have to put a disclaimer that this is purely about the music and not the person and put this disclaimer constantly.

I also saw a poll recently on what people look for in kpop idols and 'personality' won by a landslide. Which I find worrying. We do NOT know these idols 😭 I thought people learned this in kpop by now, but I guess the new wave of foreign fans are new to this. This is not US music where artists are themselves or albums reflect on them as a person.

There are actual Korean kpop critics but due to the barrier between the west and Korean social medias
I feel like not as many people see them… and they'll only review projects if a song is trending on melon. (most of the time)

"In kpop the idol is the product & the music the marketing."

This one remark sums up kpop in a nutshell. If you're just here for the music there's not a lot for you. You have to invest in their reality show appearances, sub par acting gigs, endless fancams of them hardly doing anything noteworthy (and being praised for it), etc. It's not appealing at all if you're not in this space, or you have the maturity to see through all the BS. This reminds me of how I've grown to dislike Soojin as a fan over time. I know that last sentence triggered people, but I'll explain. Soojin was my favorite member of G-Idle & her departure irked me. So I was ecstatic when she started her solo career. I bought her first two EPs despite really only liking one song on each, and disliking the title track. However the year long wait between comebacks with random shorts of her doing dance challenges weren't interesting to me. The main dancer that I was hoping to see was gone, and what I saw was someone barely putting any energy into some random tik tok dance. The only thing that was good about it was that she's attractive. The moment I saw that I was reminded why I don't really follow kpop groups. This kind of para-social interaction doesn't appeal to me. Honestly I don't care about the person performing the song that much. I just want to listen to good music. Perhaps this is why I've loved trance, progressive house & melodic techno so much over the years.

As for actual music critics, it's simply not rewarding in this day and age in general. And the few who have attempted actual professional kpop critiquing, they were often shut down by the huge amount of toxic fans, who can't take reality on their favorites :(

i love the way you word things

Which is how we need to all start realizing that katseye IS kpop

EVERYTHING you've said is on point. Selling personas, Stans thinking you've attacked their idols when you criticize their music, Lovedive's place in IVE's discography... all of it. As a fan from Gen 2 (am old), this has always been a problem for me. It's the major reason it's so hard to onboard your non-kpop friends-- they haven't bought into what I call the Kpop Kayfabe. They're still looking for the technical elements of music and performance that define most music criticism.

4:58 god you worded this part so well, you cannot express an opinion about K-pop without parasocial fans reading it as a personal attack to the idol or idols, i mean look at the comments on tiktoks criticizing cortis’s new song, they can sometimes completely ignore the og creators valid opinions, and take it as an attack on their favorite idols. It’s just disappointing because K-pop is an actual music genre, and should be treated as such

whenever stays criticise div1 and their lack of innovation and creativity sometimes with stray kids, other stays are quick to say “omg can yall ever be happy” or “stop hating” when… we are actively trying to get whats best for the group?? anything that isnt overwhelmingly positive is seen as hate and nothing in between and its just so juvenile and exhausting to deal with when we could be having actual mature and constructive conversations about our favourite groups

i used to yearn for k-pop analysis, ive lost a looot of interest in k-pop because of how stagnant it ultimately is but i think it's also like an untapped goldmine. i wish more people analyzed things like production on songs, songwriting, marketing strats, creative direction, cinematography, etc. because the industry is so expansive and accessible. i also just think it can be super helpful and interesting even for people who are not really knowledgeable on that sort of thing. i got into k-pop when i was really young so it was kind of my introduction to things like reviews and i looooved hearing what people had to say on certain projects, so i would "review" k-pop albums to myself and try to understand why i liked or didn't like something while basing myself off of a lot of points youtubers would make, and it's helped me a lot to develop critical thinking and argumentation. but i've always thought that it was such a shame that there was never really a culture around it — there was the one k-tuber or two, and that was that. it's really a shame but i do think you're right, i don't think this is going to change because the entire attitude of k-pop fandom spaces is too immature and parasocial for this sort of thing.

Most fans have no grasp of criticism or choose to gaslight themselves into accepting whatever their faves pump out. When I bring my opinions to the forefront I get asked why I'm thinking so deeply about the music when I should just enjoy it for what it is. This isn't entirely wrong because Kpop is supposed to be fun at the end of the day but dismissing any perceived criticisms towards the music or even the idols just adds to the circle jerk that fan communities have become today.

I remember there's ppl saying "that insert song name was bad" and the fans calling their opinions a ragebait, no wonder ppl can't say their actual opinions about any kpop songs bc otherwise some toxic fans will come and attack you just for sharing opinions

i remember when listening to an 𝘢𝘭𝘣𝘶𝘮 for the first time was an 𝘦𝘹𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘦...

If you look at kpop not as a music genre but as an industry, everything will be easier.

I think this whole "music is the marketing" strategy is why you see so many groups have really strong debuts and the first 2 comebacks will be great but then afterwards they slowly start losing steam and the momentum just declines. You can tell the agencies actually don't have any long-term plans for their groups and then just start giving them whatever because the fans will be enough to support them atp. I've noticed how lazy agencies are. They do not bother assessing the skills of their artists and will give them songs and choreography way out of their skill level, do not invest in their training and then just let them bear the brunt of the backlash for not singing and dancing up to par. They will also make female idols wear clothing that is not conducive to movement while expecting them to the choreographies as well. It's because none of it matters, the music, the choreography, the albums that'll have a bunch of boring, crappily produced, filler songs that has no cohesion. It's all a gimmick. But 10-15 years ago they'd at least put in some level of effort. There'd be groups with a couple of decent vocalists and the songs would be catchy and fun to listen to. Kpop was bright and energetic when music in the West was feeling drab and dull. But it doesn't even have that quirkiness to it anymore.

I wish more people were open to analyzing songs— talking about the albums and such because it seems so fun, I personally love talking about it and my personal opinion on it but in the kpop space, more people are just concerned about the idol themselves and the fantasy that is being given to them, because in my opinion the industry itself focuses much more on the need to please the fans and sell that fantasy rather then the music, alongside many people don’t listen to full albums and only the title track, making their opinion about that group as a while based on ONE song, which sucks because SOOO many groups have alot of different genres in their discography!!

great video btws <3