Magnificent conversation, from the perspective of a retired construction worker I am loving everything shared in this intellectual medium, intellect with a soul...bravo guys am downloading the covered texts

24 minute introduction before cave beneath the cave is said. goooooddd lord

Thank you Michael! ✨

Incredible content, guys. Thank you so much 🙏

Thanks!

A superb talk a discussion that actually has a sense of vitality to it

100% agree on the space for discussion.  I always think millerman does a fantastic job of detailing political philosophy step by step in such a way that a "left/Democrat" like me comes away informed not alienated and,  at times,  persuaded.

Thanks Michael. Thanks Joe. I will have to order that book.

Great talk/discussion!  I found the discussion about sophistry to be very helpful in my own understanding of sophistry.  I couldn't help but think of the great majority of politicians in our era who seem to revel in nothing more than self-aggrandizing sophistry.  It's very disheartening to hear Supreme Court Justices, for instance, engaging in this when sophistry is antithetical to virtuous speech and deeds; it does not clarify, rather it bewitches or mesmerizes.

Great discussion

The cave is called Over-imterpretation.

Athenian Stranger!

extraordinary conversation

Why shouldn't we understand the cave within the cave, as something that we have constructed to overcome doxa, which is the subject of the cave? The cave within the case is the new rationalism (which we might call science, but which within the framing of the deliberating mind a superstructure or framework that all experience is now interpreted through) that modern philosophy created to escape the cave.

I think it is a mistake to see revelation as the cave within the cave, because what is revelation but a doxa, what we hold as orthos (right or correct) and hence true.

21 minutes in and all I've learned so far is that they are really big fans of Strauss.

I'm 9 minutes in and they are still blathering the introduction.

yeah. the cave image is only useful for philosophers. Socrates creates a cave for Glaucon and Adeimantus and convinces them they are philosophers by parroting the image he forces upon them. He gives them the five minute university (and a curriculum that ensures they will easily receive and remain in the cave) and tops it off with a false training in dialectic.

Some necessary caution in trusting Plato and other philosophers is in order: after all they, and Plato most of all, create the biggest caves (as well as poets and some prophets). Faith in reason, faith in the philosophers is problematic: the zetetic life itself must be questioned. Are there limits? Do we really understand the alternatives or does Platonic dialectic prohibit our ability to understand alternatives?

Plato was white.....uh hummm.

Doesn’t it defeat the purpose of his being anonymous, The Athenian Stranger, if you’re going to give his name out?

6:47 “that’s not to say humility is a virtue.”

It most certainly is and it’s a necessary prerequisite for philosophy. Only non philosophers would believe that.


This would explain why he’s a very vain and self absorbed individual. He can’t pass up an opportunity to show his average muscle build. He isn’t a standard of excellence in either body or mind. But he’s comical to watch.