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LGBT confusion and could the LDS church embrace gay marriage?

Mormonism with the Murph

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#lds #mormon #josephsmith #marriage #familyproclamation #lgbtq #apologetics #thoughtfulfaith #bookofmormon #jesuschrist #bible #homosexuality #gaymarriage

In this episode me and Jacob discuss the recent controversy over confusion and mixed messages seeming to come from the church or members, and what the Prophets and apostles are teaching is the official doctrine and position of the church.

We discuss the confusion and the reasons or arguments some might present to support the church receiving a revelation and allowing gay marriage.

Check out Jacob's video and YouTube channel

Can we go on like this?

00:00 Introduction clips
04:03 Jacob as a controversial figure
07:13 Jacob's thoughts on LGBT members
15:35 Confusing things in Jacob's YouTube video
19:35 The definition of marriage
22:06 Confusion over Charlie Bird and Husband
29:51 High demand religion and discipleship
39:45 What is the outcome Jacob wants for the video?
41:25 Do LGBT activists have an agenda?
44:52 Confronting doctrinal differences
47:10 The bible condemns homosexuality but not gay marriage
55:08 Monogamy the norm, but polygamy an exception
59:29 Ideals and experiencing same sex attraction
1:09:28 Scriptural examples- the gospel going to the gentiles
1:17:38 Changes from heaven and hell to kingdoms of glory
1:23:18 Could the church change its definition of marriage
1:25:56 Revelations coming when there's social pressures causing the Prophet to inquire
1:29:27 Is the priesthood bann scripturally justified?
1:36:45 Priesthood Bann change and limited light and knowledge
1:42:53 What if the Prophet and Jacob received a revelation declaring gay marriage is sanctioned by god?
1:51:03 Final thoughts on marriage

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20 Comments

@arjunheart5859 2 years ago

I was just listening to Alma 5 today, where Alma repaired the church in Zarahemla. Verse 60 in particular stood out to me: "... the good shepherd doth call after you; and if you will hearken unto his voice he will bring you into his fold, and ye are his sheep; and he commandeth you that ye suffer no ravenous wolf to enter among you, that ye may not be destroyed."
I fear we have let a wolf in, who has hijacked our kindness, and we are now being destroyed from the inside out.

@BrianTerrill 2 years ago

The problem I see is that we have changed what REPENTANCE is. To repent means we have a change of mind and mend our ways. Those were the original ideas behind repentance. Now we are baptizing people who, on the contrary, are joining to bring their agenda into the church.

@Themeparkexperience1 2 years ago (edited)

Love to see you interview Daniel McClellan on this same topic and discuss these same scriptures and topic.

@frankchurch7271 2 years ago

Interesting how Jacob repeatedly states false doctrines creep into the Bible and into church teachings but doesn’t see that the same thing happens now.

@ThisistheWay-CameronLDS 1 year ago

Love this conversation. Very important for these things to be discussed and explained.

@deeblackham 2 years ago

Worthy = Ready
Worthiness = Readiness

Ready to be baptized
Ready to take the Sacrament
Ready to attend the Temple

Ready to increase in Knowledge and Development

@jonathanduran8669 2 years ago

5:06 I’ve never thought Jacob was a jerk. I’ve always seen him as a valiant defender of truth!

@Allthoseopposed 2 years ago

I love that you called Jacob an ass. He grows on you that’s for sure.

@nealljones 2 years ago (edited)

Jacob said our doctrine isn't confusing. He's correct. It's not confusing. It's clear.

Then, Jacob says it's confusing to watch members act as if it's not clear. I'd say it's frustrating, not confusing, to watch members behave as if the doctrine isn't clear. I'm not confused that some (not all) liberal members wish and advocate for a different policy, etc.

I understand what they're doing. And don't agree with them. But I'm not confused. There's nothing confusing about their actions. Their actions are, in fact, aligned with their wishes. Instead, I'm disappointed in their approach.

@extratelestial101 2 years ago

My old believing self would 100% agree with Jacob! People should be taking the gospel more seriously. It still kind of bothers me that members seem so relaxed about stuff. Thanks for the conversation! It was valuable to listen to.

@edhuhtala8457 2 years ago

I love these "devil's advocate" interviews, I think you both have thoroughly reviewed the subject, great job, both of you!

@jerry_phillips 2 years ago

I don’t know how the church could be more clear about the doctrine of marriage and gender and anyone holding out hope that the doctrine will change is wasting their time and denying themselves progress along covenant path.

@igoldenknight2169 2 years ago

God has high expectations of us. He also understands us perfectly. Jacob is right, we have a purpose, there is a plan, and only following Jesus Christ can we be saved from death and Hell and achieve our fullest potential.
That is the truth.
We shape and change ourselves to the truth.
We do not shape or change the truth for ourselves.

@peterblair4448 2 years ago

Fantastic Convo!

@icecreamladydriver1606 2 years ago

More people are denying the church. It seems to me that both the Bible and the Book of Mormon tell us that judgement day is coming for the church and that half will survive.

@BrianTerrill 2 years ago (edited)

One more thought I have on this issue, if the church caves to gay marriage and present it as a revelation thst will totally undermine the 1978 revelation giving blacks the priesthood and show the church is just responding to social pressure and calling it revelation

@freesparrowsomeday 2 years ago

If the church has gone from the narrative of “the restoration” to “an ongoing restoration” things can and will change.

@timothygarepo2054 2 years ago

The biggest question here in my mind is: Do we 1. Accept Christ and thereby denounce the doctrines of the world and the traditions of men? Or 2. Accept the Church as the official representative of Christ's word on this Earth and do whatever the church teaches, even if they align with the traditions of men, putting off all prejudice and judgement in the name of grace, love, tolerance and acceptance? The choices framed this way are a choice between "heresy" or "bigotry" - I wonder if it's Heresy in the eyes of God vs. Bigotry in the eyes of man? Definitely a latter-days conundrum it seems, a separation of wheat and tares perhaps?

@anichols2760 2 years ago

One other thing, our compassion towards those who struggle (well said by jacob) is not condoning sin and weakness. We show compassion and empathy and admit we are sinners too so that we dont unintentionally push people further into sin and weakness. How many faulty leadership styles (devoid of the spirit and acted more as hirelings than shepherds) made decisions that effectively discouraged those sinning so that they sinned all the more as they were burdened down by shame and hopelessness. So yes, love, compassion, empathy are necessary so as to provide and nurture an atmosphere where we can all maintain some dignity as we try to repent.