This was the best explanation from beginning to end including the first question.

Every Christian, every human being, should watch this video and share its truths to all the World for all Humanity to see. 🇵🇭✝️🇺🇸☦️🇬🇧

This is beginning to make sense. A reason why the earliest materials on the arrival of Islam in Jerusalem said they didn’t say their religion after conquering Jerusalem, which means, there was no Islam yet by that time. It was all for money and power at first until they came up with the idea of creating a religion. Wow!

Thank you and looking forward to the sequel!🙏

St John of Damascus is fascinating reading. In his day Muslims were not a separate religion, but a Christian heresy. I had a professor in the 1980s who used to argue that Islam was the first Christian protestant movement.

God bless you  Dr Jay Smith❤

Yasir Qadhi puts his faith in Wustenfeld. Amazing. His dance between academia and the mosque sounds to me like he goea between the house of war where he can lie to the house of islam.

Jay, please start with the dates we have their texts from, not the stories they tell about them. It gets confusing and we should not be using their made up dates for anything.

Awesome presentation!

Great research 👏🏻

Wow. Every muslim needs to see this. Fascinating, thank you

So Muslims say the Quran is true because they believe it’s true and say it’s true.

Your summary captures many important facts about the Mihna, but it also mixes established historical facts with broader interpretations that are debated among historians. It helps to separate what is well-supported from what is interpretive.

What historians broadly agree on

The Mihna was introduced in 833 CE by Al-Ma'mun.

Its central issue was whether the Qur'an was:

Created (the position associated with the Mu'tazila).
Uncreated and eternal (the position defended by traditionalists such as Ahmad ibn Hanbal).

Those who refused to affirm the official doctrine could lose office, be imprisoned, or be flogged. Ibn Hanbal became the most famous opponent of the Mihna.

The Mihna continued under Al-Mu'tasim and Al-Wathiq before being ended by Al-Mutawakkil around 848–851 CE.

Why did this debate arise over 200 years after Muhammad?

Most historians point to several overlapping developments rather than a single cause.

1. Theology had become more sophisticated

During the eighth and ninth centuries, Muslims increasingly debated philosophical questions such as:

God's attributes
Free will versus predestination
Divine justice
The nature of revelation

These debates naturally led to questions like whether God's speech (the Qur'an) was eternal or created.

2. Contact with Greek philosophy

The Abbasid translation movement brought works by Aristotle, Plato, and later commentators into Arabic.

Many Mu'tazilite theologians adopted logical methods (kalam) to explain Islamic doctrine.

Traditionalists distrusted this approach, believing revelation should not be judged by human philosophy.

3. Political authority

Many historians see the Mihna as partly political.

Al-Ma'mun was attempting to establish that the Caliph—not independent scholars—possessed final authority in defining religious doctrine.

In this sense, the Mihna was both a theological dispute and a constitutional struggle over who governed Islam.

Did the Mihna happen because people doubted Islam?

Not generally.

The surviving historical evidence suggests that almost everyone involved believed in Islam.

Their disagreement concerned:

how to understand God's nature,
how scripture should be interpreted,
who possessed legitimate religious authority.

This is different from doubting whether Muhammad existed or whether Islam itself was true.

Did Muslims question hadith during this period?

Yes—but in a specific way.

By the ninth century, scholars recognized that many reports attributed to Muhammad were unreliable or fabricated.

This led to an enormous scholarly effort to evaluate narrators and chains of transmission.

Figures such as Muhammad al-Bukhari and Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj developed rigorous methods to distinguish authentic reports from weak or fabricated ones.

This demonstrates that early Muslim scholars themselves acknowledged the existence of fabricated traditions and attempted to identify them. It does not necessarily mean they doubted Islam itself.

Was this evidence of uncertainty in early Islamic doctrine?

In one sense, yes.

The Mihna shows that major theological questions remained unsettled two centuries after Muhammad's lifetime.

It also shows that:

different schools of theology competed,
political rulers attempted to shape doctrine,
religious scholars resisted state interference,
later Sunni orthodoxy emerged through centuries of debate rather than appearing fully formed immediately after Muhammad.

These conclusions are widely accepted in modern scholarship.

Where historians differ

Some modern revisionist historians argue that the theological disputes, late biographies of Muhammad, and later compilation of hadith suggest that the early development of Islam was much more fluid than traditional accounts describe.

Others argue that, although doctrine continued to develop, the core beliefs of Islam—including belief in Muhammad, the Qur'an, and monotheism—were already well established before the Mihna.

The surviving historical evidence does not allow scholars to conclude that the Mihna proves widespread doubt about Muhammad's existence or that Islam was invented during the Abbasid period. Those are hypotheses advanced by some revisionist scholars, but they are not the consensus of academic historians.

Muslim is somebody who read Quran,
ex Muslim is somebody who understands quran

Where can we get a copy of the presentation?

The earliest surviving Islamic sources were compiled one to three centuries after the events they describe. The original biography of Muhammad by Ibn Ishaq has been lost, and the version that survives was edited by Ibn Hisham, who openly acknowledged removing material he considered unreliable or unsuitable. Abbasid political and religious institutions played an important role in preserving, transmitting, and shaping Islamic literature. Historians widely accept that early Islamic narratives underwent editorial development. However, the extent to which these processes altered historical events or fundamentally transformed Muhammad's image remains debated, with mainstream historians generally viewing the tradition as preserving substantial early material while revisionist scholars argue for much more extensive literary and political reconstruction.

First to comment, God bless everyone in this Crazy world.

Conventional historical texts composed immediately following 740 AD, notably by Musa ibn Uqbah (c. 758 AD) and Ibn Ishaq (c. 750–767 AD), established the standard timeline for Muhammad, including his birth in 570 AD and death in 632 AD. This rapid production of biographical writing was driven by the Abbasid Revolution, which sponsored the codification of oral traditions into written history after 750 AD. The earliest documented histories of Muhammad's life and the hijra were compiled during this period.

So the reason the Quran is not an organized read - because it was pilfered over time, from the writings of religions, in the areas it passed through?

That makes sense why it doesn’t read like the Torah, Law, Prophets, New  Testament

Please Dr. Jay you absolutely must watch this video, it's literally explosive stuff.

This Ex Muslim DECODED The Quran And Became CHRISTIAN!

The Islam Muslims are taught is the one the politicians and religious stooges wanted muslims to hear , without questioning , without doubt , without proof , and without using any intelligemce  , just do what you are told in Islamic narrative, otherwise  there is the sword.This perspective reflects a critical view of how political and religious institutions have historically used, and continue to use, faith as a tool for social control and unquestioning obedience.The Middle east was fractured after the demise of Persian Empire .Throughout history, rulers have often weaponised religion to maintain control, demand blind obedience, and suppress political dissent. However, this authoritarian approach stands in direct contrast to the foundational texts and intellectual achievements of the Islamic world.
Political Exploitation of FaithState Control: Rulers throughout history have often state-sponsored specific religious interpretations to legitimize their power and suppress dissent.The "Sword" Narrative: Authoritarian regimes frequently use the threat of legal or physical punishment to enforce compliance and eliminate political rivals under the guise of religious law.Sectarianism: Geopolitical actors often weaponise sectarian differences to mobilize public support and fight proxy wars.
Critical Thinking and Intellectualism in Islamic HistoryQur'anic Directives: The text of the Qur'an repeatedly commands readers to think, reflect (tafakkur), and use reason ('aql) rather than blindly following ancestral traditions.The Islamic Golden Age: Between the 8th and 14th centuries, Muslim scholars, philosophers, and scientists heavily relied on empirical proof, logic, and questioning, preserving and expanding global knowledge.Internal Debate: Classical Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh) historically embraced diverse viewpoints and rigorous debate, though this pluralism was often suppressed by later political entities seeking uniformity.