Martin's methodology is basically "don't be lazy"

I don’t play in CAGED, I think in CAGED- well put.

Use BOTH methods? WHAT?! How absurd. Using multiple approaches to expand your musical capabilities is absolutely ludicrous.

Great video guys.  What Martin says at 19.25 sums up brilliantly the main problem with 3 NPS playing

Cool, I learned 3nps early on under the influence of aforemention teachers who shall not be named, and my fretboard knowledge is pretty good, but thanks to this I can see where caged could help fill some holes that I'm seeing especially I start working on improv over more complex changes. Thanks!

Great conversation from 2 amazing players.  Thanks.

Glad to see a sensible pragmatic view of different scale systems.

happy new year martin

Hey Martin, both systems are very useful. I have a useful addition that you might find useful. You can see each string as its own instrument, and play all the notes of a triad on one string, which is exclusively horizontal movement. If you put on a static chord that plays over and over, and focus on phrasing on one string, it's very powerful to explore only one string and play all the notes that are available. The "box" is the string. Then you can move up to the next string and do the same thing, and people will notice the overlap of notes, but still view the next string as its "own instrument".

This approach has a maximum focus on the horizontal movement of the fretboard, and the triads put a great amount of distance between each note so they all feel distinct. Besides massively improving note and interval visualization, it's a great challenge to see how well you can phrase on one string and keep it interesting.

Great 'informed' conversation Martin and Levi.  After 40 yrs of guitar (next year), I was happy to learn the GAGED system in 1985 as I recall. I came to this video after my 1st 3NPS video moments ago.  Loved realizing its massive utility.  Yours is the 2nd video and now I know this is a thing on the Internet. Seams to me it splits along the intervalic thinking vs pattern shape thinking , sort of right hemisphere and left hemisphere dominance/preference.  However, since we're all switch between both hemispheres, why would camps want to choose, unless they're more interested in creating an ideology to support their dogma. Choosing in either case, ultimately doesn't extend learning, fun and expression.

Great video! As someone who learned 3Nps long ago and is finally coming around to CAGED it’s a super valuable discussion to witness.  Thx guys.

@Martin Miller - I think I've drawn essentially the same conclusions as you, only differing in the explanation and with one particular knock against CAGED (edit: at least in the way i was taught).  I think that CAGED is a great as a fundamental system for learning 5 different ways to make the same chord (and it's arpeggio), but I would stop with all things CAGED from there and transition to triads.  I practiced CAGED scales in all positions at MI/GIT in the mid 90's as this was standard curriculum, but have concluded after many years though, that this is largely a waste of time and that a much better "next step" after the 5 chord shapes is to learn all 12 triad shapes so that one really learns those interval notes in all inversions (same reasons as you state).  Simply adding additional intervals (7ths, 6ths, etc) logically follow and is easily digestible.  On top of this, understanding that all chords are stacked triads is a powerful revelation; that a maj triad is a M3 w/ a m3 stacked on top, and that a minor triad is the exact opposite; a m3 w/ a M3 stacked on top.  This means that it is NOT ONLY the interval itself that contributes to the harmonic character/flavor, but also the order/position of those stacked intervals.   This leads to revelations such as - "a 7th chord is simply 2 stacked triads: 1-3-5 and 3-5-7".  This may seem both trivial and not particularly helpful until you understand that for any dom7 chord, the "upper triad" (3-5-7) is diminished - so you can now play a diminished scale from the 3, 5, or 7, and get all the tasty notes!

I like what you're doing Mr.Miller.

I feel as a student in the past and even today that I was cheated by not being introduced to the caged system earlier.

Blows me away this is even a discussion. The caged system is beautiful as well as three note or 4 note per string tricks all great technic honestly seeing the caged system on the fret board allows alot faster placement for 3 note per string riffs. Knowing is better

I think a large portion of new guitar players of today want a quick and dirty method of learning guitar. They don’t realize that the same energy the expend doing that could have been spent learning the correct way. That comes to what is the correct way, big question. That’s why they should watch this video and understand there are more than one method than the one there teacher showed them. It may open up a whole new world by trying Martins method if they haven’t. Great discussion you had with Levi.

As someone who's familiar with both Levi's and Martin's instructional material I can only advice everyone to  learn CAGED properly and look into their stuff. I've spend 100+ hours on the exercises of the Improvisation Masterclass Vol1 by the time being and it's been nothing but helpfull!

It just dawned on me that this is guitar player drama and I absolutely love this lol

Lately, I've been fusing the two. My map of the fretboard has always been the triads and chords, because that was just logical to me, but for single note lines, 3NPS allows me to play any pattern in the system to connect the chords together, giving me a sound that's based in the background music, with embellishments, which sounds nicer for my ears.

I much prefer this to a pure method of the two, because allows me to think more harmonically, melodically, and musically, much like my favorite guitar player, Dave Murray from Iron Maiden. He could shred with the best of them, but his playing is more based in harmony and melody.

The approach I use now allows me to base my playing in harmony, forcing me to use my ears more. Any system that forces you to listen to what you're doing is perfectly valid.

Great discussion guys !